1. Everyone heals at different paces & views relationships differently.
2. You know when something is wrong because you feel discomfort about it. That’s how the conscience works.
3. Friends define the terms of their friendship.
4. Just because someone is lusting after you doesn’t mean they’ll be in your life forever.
5. Human beings are social creatures that need social relationships to survive.

1. I made this comment because we all need to recognize that the “right answer” cannot be objective, unless it’s a law agreed upon by everyone. A made up code does not count.

2. We all have ideas of what’s wrong to us based on personal experiences and the way you may have been raised. This also means that your friends will have different perspectives too. You can’t approach the world like everyone else will accept what you do.

3. To differentiate between acquaintances, friends, and best friends, you have to actually get to know how someone determines those labels. For me I’ve sometimes found promiscuous girls who dated me very horny with lack of self-control. Plus I hate the idea of some guy looking to get a notch on his belt breaking up a good friendship. But I wont say that there hasn’t been times when a friend emotionally crossed the line and I have no patience. It depends on context. If a friend knows I’m not over someone or doesn’t bother to ask for example, I feel like they were only thinking about themselves and their impulsive sexual needs trumped our friendship. That’s offensive to me sometimes. But if it’s just an acquaintance I’d be like my bad, shouldn’t have trusted her to be around my guy without throwing herself at him with that overactive libido. I don’t think you fell into that category. But I do think asking permission after deliberately doing something that COULD hurt someone, is not truly being a best friend. It’s just declaring what happened and leaving the responsibility on someone else to let their acceptance or rejection decide the friendship. I mean if she said she wasn’t ok with it how would you realistically feel? Also, why hesitate to tell her you had the crush unless you felt you didn’t have self-control. It’s important for people to reflect on their motives for action. If you kept it a secret because you thought it was wrong for a long time, why did it just change when he was looking all good? Is that an accurate response or a hormonal response? And of course the golden rule, what would you think of a friend who drops self-control for immediate gratification at the expense of your “potential” feelings?

4. Friends are there until you break things off. It’s a tighter longer term bond. Course boyfriends have a deeper bond which could someday turn into something long term. My caution with guys who dated my friends is that he has the potential to “fall” for other people while he’s with me too. Then you’ll put in a year or two to be caught by surprise when his feelings change or he blames you for the split. I mean you have to decide what risks you’re willing to take. But spontaneous sex is never as securely long term as a friendship CAN be. Unless you’re a bad friend. So…I guess what I’m saying is a deeper friendship can do more for your sense of security. But not everyone needs that…so to each their own. But don’t forget karma. If you think it’s acceptable for you to do something then you also must find it acceptable for others to do the same.

5. Look it up. Isolated humans have shorter life spans. So if you want friends who can trust you and you can turn to when you need someone to be there for you, we need to communicate more like men do and stop perpetuating their bad behaviors. If you’re a monogamous person find a monogamous guy. If you’re a swinger, marry a swinger etc. And for Christ Sakes if you want to keep a friendship, find out what your friend is looking for and give it to them. But set boundaries early on. It’s ok to tell your friends what you expect to qualify them as a special friend. That way no one gets shocked when you get angry about something you told them could happen.

they guy gets all the glory the more he can score

while the girl can do the same but yet you call her a whore"

If they said i love you: Completely off limits ( when you love someone i dont care how long its been they were a part of your heart)

now if they just dated. then thats one thing, but only if you ask permission first. (Keyword on the FIRST)

these stories totally remind me of my situation for the past year…

so… i had a “friend” (i say in quotes, because i realize now she was not really my true friend–) who was living in a tent on a farm when she first moved to town… i was living in a quite fancy house that my b.f. had just bought… i shared everything i had with this girl… including my problems, that my b.f. was always gone (it was a new relationship and he was always gone on business and trying to use money to keep me around…) and that i was still in love with my ex (who had turned alcoholic since our breakup, but who was still pursuing me and declaring his love…)

she knew ALL my secrets… finally my b.f. and i broke up and i was with my ex again… he was sobering up and i had hope that we would work things out… i was still dealing with a lot from having to move out of my house since the breakup…

my “friend” promised to help me move… i was totally overwhelmed by it… and she had stayed with me many times and had house-sat for me, so i trusted her and felt comfortable with her…

then i had a party and my ex (the one i was still sweet on, not the one who owned the house) and this girl “friend” of mine met… and i heard later from another mutual friend she was totally trying to stake out how much he and i were hanging out, and asking lots of questions about him etc…

she then started trying to make moves on him and within a week she had completely dumped me as a friend and was not returning my calls and was no-showing me for our plans for packing my house etc…

i went over to my ex’s house with no knowlege of this and then called the girl because we had had plans to meet… i had her meet me at my ex’s house… within 5 minutes of us all being together i had overwhelming feelings that something was UP between them…

i went outside and talked with my ex’s roommate… turns out, yes my “friend” had been over there every single day.

then my ex came out and i had some words with him, about people who would care more about pursuing their own lusts than considering the feelings of other people–

and i left…

my ex came over to my house, very apologetic and willing to help me pack or move, asking me for my “blessing” for him to pursue the relationship–

i said, no this is b.s. i can’t give you my “blessing” but do whatever you want, you’re a free person

i cut both of them off completely.

later i ran into my ex… he was so happy to see me and expressing his love for me and how beautiful i was and how much he missed me and was glad i didn’t hate him… “i don’t hate you, i just can’t have anything to do with you sometimes” i said… and we were dancing together…

then 15 minutes later the girl shows up and comes up to me all brusquely acting like nothing ever happened.

(SHE HAD NEVER EVEN CALLED ME OR WRITTEN ME A LETTER OR ANYTHING)… i didn’t want to talk to her and so i just gave her the cold shoulder… but then when i saw her and my ex dancing together i left because i didn’t want to see that.

so then a month or so later i try to heal things with my ex, and be friends, even though i am still hurt and angry… and he starts confessing his continued feelings for me… and tries to seduce me… (this happens on three or four occasions, EVERY time we are alone together, he talks about how deep his love is for me)

i later write him a letter telling him to knock it off, that he should respect his “girlfriend” and not go after me like that or try to seduce me behind her back…

i am very lonely at this time because his roommate was my OTHER best friend… and i had been avoiding her because i didn’t want to see the other two. i finally stop avoiding her… and decide when she’s leaving town to throw her a great going away party…

i decide it’s ok if my former “friend” is there even though i haven’t talked to her now in a few months… (oh i forgot, my ex came over the night before this “friend”‘s b-day, and told me she meant nothing to him, that they were together just for this time… i was skeptical… but then he admitted he didn’t have a b-day present for her, so i gave him something to give to her i had intended giving her but never had a chance to. but then the next day i hear that he went to the beachtown where I AM FROM that is VERY special to me for HER birthday… this makes me more mad than i can say because i have been working so hard on forgiving them but it feels like another powertrip on her part, for her to suggest going there… i don’t want to go into this too much, but i will say that i am part native and this beach town is on the indian reservation where i went to preschool and it is a very beautiful place, not just any beach.)

so anyways, when she gets back from celebrating HER birthday at MY birthplace, i guess she couldn’t help but thinking of me, because i find a letter of apology in my mailbox… it’s a nice letter. but it has now been let’s see… 5 months since everything first went down.

i decide it’s a nice letter but NOT going to make us friends again…

however because she DID apologize i decide it’s cool if she wants to come to the party… so i make sure that she knows she can come…

HOWEVER she proceeds to annoy me but pretending NOTHING EVER HAPPENED and trying to be my friend at the party which totally irritates me. also she and the boy act very lovey-dovey at the party which also irritates me, because i had just ASKED him a week before to tell me how he felt about her and he had totally downplayed it.

my first time hanging out with them since this all went down and i do my best to not be miserable…

since i am the hostess of the party there’s lots to distract me but overall i don’t have a very good time…

then the girl who was my friend leaves for mexico for a month or two and meanwhile my ex tells me he’s not committed to her and decides its ok to make out with me and tell me he loves me forever…

i did not have sex with him though and i am glad i didn’t because i find out that less than a week later, he tells his old roommate he loves HER and that he might want to marry her.

meanwhile after hearing that the ex has confessed love to me again, (perhaps out of her own jealousy) the roommate confesses to me that she ALSO had an affair with him (and had never told the other girl or me… the ENTIRE time she is listening to my heartbreak over the betrayal of this girl!) AND that she had unprotected sex with him on numerous occasions despite the fact that she was being actively treated for precancerous cervical lesions (meaning she had the gnarliest strain of HPV)…

so then i end my friendship with HER too because i couldn’t believe her selfishness and dishonesty

and then i’m totally alone without my “socalled friends”… and i am very sad because i have also been babysitting the roommate’s baby and love the baby very much.

but i decide i need to let the other girl know she was exposed to this gnarly std… so i make the boy promise to tell her and he does

and then i ask the boy to please move away so i can have some peace in my life again

and so now he has… and is living in another town with the girl who went to mexico…

i feel bad not to tell her about his betrayals because if she was MY friend i would definitely let her know…

but i feel like she’s not my friend and telling her would only be trying to get revenge.

though i KNOW it would probably break them up…

and teach him a lesson!

i am not sure what to do.

i am so sick of all these people and their selfish way of acting despite their charming exteriors and i am glad i found this board/blog because when i have acted upset about these actions of my so-called friends they have totally put it on me like i am the conservative one with the problem… hearing your stories and varying points of views have helped me to realize how ludicrous this all was…

the people in this circle of friends agree that i need to get over it …

i DO need to get over it, but not because i was never betrayed!

but just so i can get on with my life and have a happy life!!!

anyway… thanks for letting me vent…

let me just say that MORALS are there for A REASON, not as rules to keep us in check and control us, but to PREVENT US FROM HURTING EACH OTHER… and to prevent us from being ruled by our more selfish drives…

though of course, i think TRUE LOVE has a reason for being all of its own, and if people have true love they are ALWAYS justified in getting together…

but i am not sure if the boy is a polyamourist who loves all of us truly or just a player… who knows…

maybe something in-between…

I was the same way. I felt betrayed when it happened to me. He and I were estranged towards the end, but the whole time we were dating my best friend and I lived in a one bedroom apartment together. We were so close I spent vacations with her family and she called me sister. When I found out I screamed incest and betrayal. Gross! She was in the apartment when he and I were getting it on and I'm sure she heard, and we talked about his shortcomings and problems with the relationship all the time.

Messy Jess – "You are retarded if you don’t understand why it’s wrong – because she was intimate with him, she cared for him and out of all of the other men out there, you chose HER man." "Women who sleep with their friends’ exes aren’t really infatuated with the guy, they are infatuated with the relationship their friend and boyfriend had with one another."

I don't entirely agree with the last quote, but that's how I felt in terms of the betrayal. I felt like her actions compared us, and the fact that he joined in just shows she's better. It made me insecure. He treats me like crap for 6 months and then turns around and goes after my best friend. He tells me he was interested in her while we were dating. She got closer to him when we broke up. It hurts like hell.

I can never really look at her the same, never call her my sister again, we'll never be close again, because this whole ordeal has made them close friends where I am the third wheel and that just does not compute for me. When he and I broke up it was mutual, but only because he changed and he wasn't there for me anymore. I recognized the change, but wish it didn't happen. I'm not going to be an outsider to an earlier part of my life, that I didn't want to lose, so I can't be around them to watch how close they've gotten. It makes me want to vomit. I know I said "our friendship is better more important" and I'll still see her without him, but, the nausea is still there if I ever see them together.

Jess, I know when the movie started, that wasn't really the point. it was just a situation most everybody knows of and could be used as an example.

If my friend started dating one of my exes and they were happy then I would be happy for them, obviously they're better for each other then he and i were so there's no point in me hanging on to him when he can make someone else (especially someone I care about) more happy then he could make me.