Heather says:
Wed, 13th Aug 20089:07 am 

this was very refreshing for me to read. im not a person who is afraid to use the f-word, but i constantly get the same reply when i do. im some kind of feminazi who hates men. in reality, i think feminism has benefited men, because it has relieved the pressure of being the sole breadwinner that caused men to commit suicide during the great depression. we also have feminiss like maragaret sanger we can all thank for simple things like birth control and contraceptive knowledge; things which used to be illegal in this country, and what we take for granted.

im not afriad to use the word though, because i know what it really means. it means equality for women and men, which covers all of us, since every single person in the world is either male or female. im shocked when people say they arent feminists, only for their following comments to reflect that they probably actually are one. fantastic article.

Heather says:
Wed, 13th Aug 20089:07 am 

feminists****

Devon - UCLA says:
Wed, 13th Aug 200811:08 am 

Couldn't agree more!

thestorysofar says:
Wed, 13th Aug 20081:33 pm 

Hoorah for this article

anon says:
Wed, 13th Aug 20087:27 pm 

Wow. I can't help but find this naive and almost idiotic. Feminism isn't about being nice to people. That's like saying the civil rights movement was really all about everybody getting along.

These are serious issues, and looking at them through rose-colored glasses is not going to help anyone. Serious change needs to happen, and I don't think that our all holding hands and going back to elementary school-type slogans will do that.

The issues that concern feminists–equal pay, sexual harassment, rape, objectification, the beauty/celebrity industry, eating disorders, etc.–are of such a serious nature that I feel like this article just totally misses the point. Feminism isn't just about whether you wear dresses or dress like a man. It's not about whether or not people make rape jokes.

I really don't want to seem too blunt about this, but this article is almost flippant and nonchalant about the entire feminist movement. Irresponsible.

Heather says:
Thu, 14th Aug 20083:08 pm 

i always considered the biggest part of feminism to be at the microlevel, which is where i took the people being nice to each other as not discriminating towards each other at all. in other words, we can have laws such as sexual harassment on the books, but what we need to recognize is that we all can change in order to make a difference. it starts with viewing feminism and equality as important guiding forces in our lives, to live each day making sure weve treated everyone as equals, and remembering that all the laws we have started with people changing the way that they think.

Caroline says:
Fri, 15th Aug 20082:17 am 

Heather is right on, as is this article!

I've been an ardent feminist for as long as I can remember- it's how I was raised. Not to hate men (I love my boyfriend of 4 years!), nor to stop using makeup, or to reject high heels (is now a good time to mention I compete in beauty pageants?). My mom and grandma taught me not to judge people. To be nice and polite to everyone, regardless of who they are, their beliefs, or where they come from. To believe in equality of people, again, regardless.

Yes, feminism is about the big issues- women have come a long way, but we still have a LONG way to go (Are you aware that we make 76 cents for every dollar a man makes? And have you noticed that women are 50% of the population… but only make up 16% of congress?), but it's also about the "smaller" issues too. Whether or not people make rape jokes reflects society's acceptance of rape.

Feminism is about changing society for the better, being proud of who you are, and standing up for what you believe in- whether you're wearing Birkenstocks or Louboutins.

Casey says:
Sat, 16th Aug 20086:14 pm 

Caroline, you make some excellent points. But on your statistics, Maybe women don't make as much money as men because they just aren't as good at the jobs that men are, It's not necessarily about equality, just like affirmative action, I don't think someone should get a job, or more money, based on the color of their skin or gender. It should be based on how well they do a job. So maybe men make more because they're better at what they do, maybe their are more men in congress because 1. More men want to do that job then women, or 2. They are better at it. I don't want a woman running the country if there is a man that can do it better. Maybe a womans place is in the kitchen, because we can do it better, and we are programmed from the beginning of time to do it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for women doing the jobs they want, I don't want anyone telling me I can't do a job I have my heart set on. But I'm not going to expect to be given anything just because I'm a woman, I expect to have to work just as hard as the men do and work my way to the top, just like the men do, and if I'm not as good as the men doing the job I don't expect to get paid the same amount. There are some things men are just better at then women, like leading, most women just CANT lead, we're not the most level headed and fair thinking people around, we can get crazy, that doesn't mean we're not as smart as men, we just don't make sound decisions as well, it's how we're made, and it's not all women, everyone is different.

We can be equal without having to rule, feminism gets a bad rep because a lot of women think it's about being BETTER then men, not equal and that seriously sets us back.

But before we start to wave those statistics around maybe we should look a little deeper into them, maybe we're just not as good at the things we're trying to do, maybe we should try something else, be equal at things we're actually good at? and excel in fields we're better in.

* says:
Tue, 19th Aug 20085:27 am 

WOW I'm not even going to begin to explain how fucked up that entire viewpoint is. Dear god. You just made me want to cut myself. I think it was the epitome of all dumb comments I've read on this website.

Did you ever think that just because a man gets the job, it doesn't mean he was better qualified for it? Geez. You sure seem to put a lot of trust in the way things are run.. Like just because he's getting paid more, he must be better.

I dont think anyone here is trying to say women "deserve" to be given anything they aren't qualified for, just that IF they do qualify, they should be entitled to every opportunity and the same rate of pay as men.

"Maybe a womans place is in the kitchen, because we can do it better, and we are programmed from the beginning of time to do it."

You are entitled to believing and doing as you choose, so I'm just hoping that you do find your place to be in the kitchen, because I would absolutely HATE to ever have to work with you. lol

I'd like to end this with your own quote, haha:

"we can get crazy, that doesn’t mean we’re not as smart as men, we just don’t make sound decisions as well, it’s how we’re made, and it’s not all women, everyone is different."

How the hell can you make a dumb ass generalization like that, and then say, oh, but not everyone.

dear god… you really must be a complete idiot.

Hans says:
Tue, 19th Aug 20085:30 am 

Bah, typical sniveling mangina whimpering "Can´t we just all get along?". And no, you won´t get laid quicker with that attitude. On the contrary.

Feminism is all about destroying the family and indulging victimhood, vanity, and entitlement notions of the part of the species, that´s most vulnerable to that.

Only thing that feminism did was making one half of the species that wasn´t paying taxes for their vital work, quit tending to the home and enter the workforce. Thus diminishing paychecks overall and creating disfunctional families.

J - NYU says:
Tue, 19th Aug 20085:48 am 

Oh. My. GOD. Hans,

What type of cracked-out literature have you been reading?

Melissa says:
Tue, 19th Aug 20087:46 am 

We're not good at making decisions? And yet women are the primary caretakers of their husbands and CHILDREN and somehow people aren't accidentally being killed every 46 seconds.

Okay, Casey.

Jes says:
Tue, 19th Aug 20088:14 am 

yeah I think Casey and Hans need to hook up…

they'd make quite the couple.

Casey says:
Tue, 19th Aug 20085:19 pm 

you must have missed my point completely. All I was saying is that we should be able to do whatever we want but we shouldn't get undeserved treatment. Which is what some people want (and what affirmative action grants) I said, I don't want anyone to tell me what I can and can't do, but if I'm not as good as other people then it's my problem and I don't deserve to get special treatment cause i'm a woman. I agreed with what everyone else is saying, I was just adding that aspect which no one mentioned. Seems you are the naive idiot who doesn't want to look at all the issues surrounding a topic. And that isn't a "dumbass generalization" wake up and look around you.

Lauren says:
Wed, 20th Aug 20083:57 am 

"Seems you are the naive idiot who doesn’t want to look at all the issues surrounding a topic."

Well that didn't prove her wrong at all, in fact I dont even think there was a point made in that last post…

You blatantly said women aren't as good as men at making decisions, aren't born to be leaders, etc etc. (Which sounds pretty naive AND idiotic to me.)

You dug that hole, don't get upset when people think you're dumb.

Casey says:
Wed, 20th Aug 20085:48 pm 

Well from what I've experienced, women can't lead. They get mad and they get irrational, and vengeful. I don't care who you are I don't care what you think of me for saying that, call me dumb, but this site and the comments on it just proves my point. No one wants to look at the other side, no one asks, "why would you think that?" There is no debating, there is just, "You're an idiot because your beliefs are different than mine!" "You're so stupid because you see something I don't see!" "you must be screwed up because you think different than me!" Everyone thinks they're right and no one wants to look at the other persons side. I'm not asking anyone to change their opinions, I'm just offering mine. But every encounter I've ever had with another woman has been this way. We have our opinions and we stick to them. I think that makes it very hard for women to be in charge. I agreed with the poster and added my own thoughts on the matter. I'm not against feminism, I just see things differently. I'm not trying to hold women back, I'm all for women going out and doing what they want and being equal to men, but I see it different and what I see isn't working.

And I wasn't trying to prove anyone wrong. I was just restating the point of my first post for the people that obviously missed it, or are just too naive to even consider it.

Greg says:
Wed, 20th Aug 20089:30 pm 

While the stat that women make 76% of what men make is easy to dismiss, it is vital to the larger issue. Recent studies found that when you include women taking time off for pregnancy, raise families, and lack of advancement from dedication to the first two (honorable) lifestyle choices, the number somehow jumps to 98%! (see: http://www.iwf.org/iwfmedia/show/20132.html)

…all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Chapter VI

But the point is that feminists are only for equality in public. In private, they will talk about how women are special, want the doors opened for them, be taken out on a date they don't have to pay for, and have extreme rationalizations about "but, we have to pay for makeup and clothes and…" or "but, we make less!"

I make it a point to incorporate equality into my daily life for EVERYONE. I just don't seem to get the same treatment in return from women.

Casey says:
Thu, 21st Aug 20081:40 pm 

Greg, that was part of my point. I wish other people could see it that way. I think women will only start to be treated equally when they realize this, change their thinking, and begin to want to be equal, not better.

The Devil says:
Thu, 21st Aug 20088:57 pm 

As a Black male, I can't help be see the striking similarities between "feminism" and the Black Pride movements. Both were born out of years and years of oppression and both had completely noble beginnings, but now both suffer from "lack of sense of humor" syndrome.

I think feminists, like Blacks and now gays have to learn how to tell the difference between malice and ignorance. If you completely blast everybody who makes a bad joke, you run the risk of alienating people who probably agree with you on most things. I see Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the Gloria Allred/Jane Fonda/Gloria Steinum types do this every single day.

Those types empower Imus, Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Savage by being such babies about everything. Once the argument stops being about equality and starts being about trying to control everything everybody says, then WE lose. We as Blacks, you guys as women, and gay people as gays. The quickest way to be written off is to take yourselves way to seriously.

Keep it about the principals, be tolerant and educate the ignorant, without putting the hammer down on them, unless you have to, and never forget that too many people marched and died for you to have the right for you to fight for your children, so don't give up. Peace.

Anon says:
Sat, 23rd Aug 20083:40 pm 

well said, but i agree with casey i think that people should be paid for how well they do the job not what gender they are that is just wrong to suggest that women, because they are women should be paid more than a man for a job they do crap which a man could do better.

for example, women are better cleaners generally as womenaremoreorderly and organised where as men are more usefull for the hard working things and protective things like a cop

howeverwhen it comes to something like running a country, it doesnt depend on the gender but the education and how well it works thats the main point the amount of work done and how well

Casey says:
Sat, 23rd Aug 20085:59 pm 

thank you! That's what I was trying to say.

anastasia says:
Sun, 24th Aug 20082:13 pm 

Feminism in the US is only useful to white, middle class women.

Richard says:
Fri, 29th Aug 20088:13 am 

A couple of things.

First, until men and women are treated equally in the workplace on ALL levels, equal pay should not be the standard. I work in a company where several women work a "flex" schedule because they have young children at home. So, they work a 4-day week. I, however work a 5-day week. When I asked for a "flex" schedule to spend more time with my kids, in addition to being made to feel by my co-workers that I am a whiner, I was told "no." So, why should a woman who does the same job as me be paid the same as me when she only has to work a 4-day week and I have to work a 5-day week?

Second, why do 77.5% of all divorces with children end in custody being awarded to the mother? Many argue that a child's bond with his/her mother is more important than with his/her father. Absurd. Ridiculous. Do you see men starting a "masculism" movement demanding equal custody?

Mark says:
Sat, 30th Aug 20087:54 pm 

women have to go through a lot just because of their anatomy. guys don't have to go thru ANY of it. ever. so we are driven to work to make sure YOU are all comfy going thru all that crap. it's lik a guilt complex, but it all balances out. here's what it boils down to: you're saying it wrong. when you say "women can't open doors, the men will do it" you are going to have riots. it sounds like you're saying women are uncapable because they are women. but if you say "women shoudn't HAVE TO open doors, the men will do it FOR THEM" it seems pretty damn curteous – almost subserviant. and i think that's a HUGE part of the problem. it's not that women ONLY MAKE 76% of man wages, it's that hey shouldn't HAVE to make any. they should be provided for, revered, praised, and have their frikin feet rubbed once in a while. i'm not saying a woman CAN'T be in Congress, i'm saying why would she WANNA be? relax. go shopping. pick up a sport. who in their right mind WANTS to work if it isn't necessary? i mean really, that whole being a woman thing is work enough. you bleed for years, you cary milk around in your CHEST your whole life, you've got that "person inside of you" action for almost a YEAR, THEN you gotta squeeze it OUT of something that's only good if it's TINY – honestly, you should all be getting paid just to BE women. but you're not. so why not let someone ELSE pay you to be a woman? like a man. i mean, if you're not gonna like us for our big dumb penises, like us for our need to provide.

anon says:
Fri, 19th Dec 20087:55 am 

I dont even want to get started on mark's dumbass comment…nothing about that wasn't condescending.