Abortion: NOT an ‘Easy’ Choice

September 18, 2008 - 3:00 pm By CC Staff

abortion_by_amelee.jpgThis political season, everyone who is against abortion keeps rattling off about how it’s an easy choice for a woman. I hear words scrambled into arguments that are excruciatingly harsh. Words like…MURDER and SELFISH and HUMAN LIFE and RESPONSIBILITY. I am here to tell you that abortion is never an easy choice. For anyone.

No, I have not had an abortion myself. Thankfully, I have been using birth control and condoms consistently and I have never been pregnant. If I were to ever become pregnant somehow, I cannot say that I would have the baby. I know that choice is gut-wrenching. That is why I do everything I can to make sure that I don’t ever have to make it. I have been sexually active for almost 5 years now and my methods of birth control have always worked.

Some of my friends, however, have not been as careful as I have been. Some of my friends, including a best friend and a roommate, have gone through the process of an abortion. Believe me, it is not as easy as many people paint it to be. I have watched these girls cry for nights on end. The choice to have something taken out of your body that could grow into a life, regardless of whether or not you believe it is currently ‘alive,’ is one of the hardest choices a woman can ever make.

My old roommate, Carol, couldn’t speak for days after she found out she was pregnant. She was 21, in college, and a dancer. Going forward with having the baby would mean postponing her college graduation at least a year. She would have had no way to pay rent — since she was paying it through student loans — if she left her dance program. She would have to move back across the country to live with her mom and be apart from all of the friends she had made, including her boyfriend. Her boyfriend wanted the choice to be hers, but we all knew the truth: he didn’t have any money and hardly any responsibility.

Carol didn’t have any money. Growing and bonding with a baby for 9 months, at the cost of Carol’s college education and livelihood, all for her to give the baby up for adoption, was not an option. I did not blame her when she told me that she was going to have an abortion. She and her boyfriend saved up money for it and went together. She cried constantly for the next few months, but always knew she had made the right choice. Now, a few years later, she and that boyfriend are married with a newborn. She has her degree and they both have steady jobs and a happy family.

All I’m saying is this: abortion is never easy. Please stop acting like it is. Having the choice is actually very difficult, but I believe that there is something to be said for responsibility. There is something to be said for a woman who can, despite her maternal instincts, know that she is not yet ready to mother or carry a baby.

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41 Comments on "Abortion: NOT an ‘Easy’ Choice"

  1. Rovelyn says:
    Thu, 18th Sep 20083:57 pm 

    Have you read the blog: What to expect when you’re Aborting? or whatever it’s called. That sure as hell makes it sound like a stroll in the park.

  2. Sam says:
    Thu, 18th Sep 20083:59 pm 

    I completely agree.

  3. S says:
    Thu, 18th Sep 20088:50 pm 

    Sorry, but it is murder, and it’s never the right answer. It’s a hard decision because it’s a completely horrible one, and it shouldn’t even be a choice.

  4. SD says:
    Thu, 18th Sep 20089:41 pm 

    As a woman that has HAD an abortion [at 17] and now 40 — I will say that it SHOULD ALWAYS be a choice.

    I am PRO-choice, but anti-abortion. No one on this earth should be able to tell us what to do with our bodies.

    I know I may never have a child [due to age] and I think about what I did, but I would not change a thing.

    I hope a woman NEVER has to make that decision. But IF she does, she will have the options available to her that were available to me.

  5. Paige says:
    Thu, 18th Sep 200810:06 pm 

    My personal opinion is that the choice was made before the abortion was necessary. If a baby isn’t an option, and an adoption isn’t an option, then sex shouldn’t be either. That’s the responsibility these politicians are talking about.

  6. C says:
    Thu, 18th Sep 200811:44 pm 

    Thank you! This article was great. I wish more people would respect the difficulty women face when choosing to abort (or put their child up for adoption or even keep it).

    Side Note-Sex isn’t just for reproduction. As long as you are being safe and smart it’s fine to want sex and not want a baby.

  7. Carina says:
    Fri, 19th Sep 20083:44 am 

    i agree that PRO CHOICE does NOT mean PRO ABORTION. women everywhere should be supportive of women no matter what choice they make. to say you are pro life is selfish. all women should be pro choice even if they don’t believe in abortion, its about supporting women.

    IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE BABY, then i’d support you. so if someone tells you they are going to get an abortion you should support them.

    women supporting women, it was a movement, maybe you heard about it?

  8. Erin says:
    Fri, 19th Sep 200810:19 am 

    I hate reading the first few comments. I especially love the one that starts “sorry…” jeez, you’re not sorry. you’re just cramming your opinion down my throat. Step outside of your comfort zone and think about it from another perspective!

    Anyway, I’m pro choice but I’m not for abortion. I could never do that if I was put in that situation, but I would want to know that I had the freedom to decide on my own.

  9. molly says:
    Fri, 19th Sep 20083:29 pm 

    Thanks for the great article :)

  10. S says:
    Fri, 19th Sep 20084:02 pm 

    It’s not what you’re doing to your body, it’s who you’re killing inside it.

  11. Ericka says:
    Fri, 19th Sep 20084:03 pm 

    I second Paige’s comment. Well said.

  12. Autumn says:
    Fri, 19th Sep 20089:39 pm 

    It isn’t about “if you don’t want a kid, then don’t have sex”. That is a stupidly sophomoric attitude favoured by the right wing.

    What this is about is educating teenagers openly and honestly about appropriate birth control methods, and making those methods available to the average 15-25 year old female student.

    Abortion is not a birth control method, but it is a necessary tool that a woman must be able to use if her circumstances are not appropriate for birth.

    Fact is, the female body has an approx 33% chance of aborting any foetus before it comes to term. That’s why it is a miscarriage. Abortion is essentially the selection of that 33% chance.

    Frankly, I don’t give a damn about any hunk of tissue that is not sentient(under 8 months). No social resources have been put into that being, apart from nutrients from the carrying woman. This blob has no personality, no “who” and no capacity to think on a human level. Maybe jellyfish at best.

    I care about that woman, whom the taxpayers have supported through education, health care, social interactions, and religious connections. She is real, she is present, and we have all put time and energy into her.

    Her well-being and best opportunity for a fulfilling life come before a glob of cells. If an abortion means she finishes her education, marries someone she loves, and can do her best for future children with her financial and mental resources… then ABORTION is the CORRECT choice.

    Nobody goes, “Whoo-hoo, I’m going to kill my fetus! Bring popcorn!”. Abortion is a serious step, and all women who abort give this very serious consideration. Why do you think they are crying? It is because an opportunity is lost… but in return, they keep their own lives that they have built for themselves. That opportunity will come again, but at a better time.

    (For all the “pro-life” meat eaters: Doesn’t matter it has fingers and toes- so do fetal pigs in a sow in a slaughterhouse. Don’t throw the word murder around like it’s confetti.)

  13. Autumn says:
    Fri, 19th Sep 20089:43 pm 

    BTW, a pregnant female wolf has the ability to reabsorb fetuses back into the lining of the womb in times of stress, where she cannot adequately care for pups.

    Don’t tell me that women should have fewer options than a wolf!

  14. Elizabeth - Baruch College says:
    Sat, 20th Sep 20087:47 pm 

    Couldn’t agree more with everything you said, Autumn, especially your last line. Thanks!

  15. Olivia says:
    Sat, 20th Sep 200810:41 pm 

    autumn…

    sorry but,

    that was fucking beautiful.

  16. Heather says:
    Mon, 22nd Sep 20081:12 am 

    All I can say, is if you are pro-life, don’t get an abortion. Don’t tell other people what to do with their lives, or how you think they should feel when it comes to that difficult decision.

    I’ve been very careful. I’ve never been pregnant. But, I NEVER want a child. Not now, not 40, not EVER. I’m not waiting until menopause to lose my virginity according to pro-life logic that if you don’t want a child don’t have sex. And I’m not one of those people that isn’t careful. Like I said, I’ve been sexually active for many years now and have never gotten pregnant. I’m doing everything that I can to not have to make that decision. But I will be DAMNED if anyone tells me what I can and cannot do with my own body.

    And I’m also just wondering… how many people on this site that suggest adoption are going to grow up and adopt a baby that someone had to give up? With the number of kids that don’t have any homes, I’d have to say not very much. Food for thought.

  17. Valerie says:
    Tue, 23rd Sep 20086:48 pm 

    Great article! I also want to point out that the quality of life their child is going to have is much better than if they decided to have a child when she was 21 and not ready to support one.

  18. Dasha says:
    Tue, 23rd Sep 20087:08 pm 

    I am feeling some serious Autumn and Heather love.

  19. holly says:
    Wed, 24th Sep 200811:38 am 

    great article, I couldn’t have put it better myself.

  20. Autumn says:
    Wed, 24th Sep 200811:49 am 

    Hey gals… looking back on it, i seriously enjoyed writing that. Sometimes you post shit and wonder if you’re full of crap or not. Thanks for the supportive comments.

  21. Soph says:
    Wed, 24th Sep 20085:22 pm 

    Autumn, what you wrote is amazing!

  22. Pat says:
    Fri, 26th Sep 20083:06 am 

    http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/quallife.htm

    Abortion: Improving the Quality of Life

    A child who would be born with a handicap or into poverty will have such a miserable life that he or she would be better off not being born at all. Far better to be aborted.

    For example, consider the sad case of the baby born to a poor, unmarried black woman. Her mother couldn’t care for her, and she was shuffled off to one set of relatives and then another. She was sexually abused as a child. Wouldn’t that poor girl have been far better off to have been aborted?

    Her name is Oprah Winfrey. On the off chance you haven’t heard of her, she is one of the nation’s most populat television talk show hosts and was nominated for an Academy Award.

    Or how about the boy born with epilepsy. His mother died when he was 15. His father was murdered when he was 17. His radical political activities landed him in prision. At one point he was even sentenced to death, though he was reprived at the last moment.

    His name was Fyodor Dostoevsky, and he is one of Russia’s most famous writers, author of Crime and Punishment and The Brother’s Karamazov.

    Another poor black child went blind as a boy. Both his parents died when he was a teenager. But in a state school for the blind he learned to read Braille. He also learned to memorize music and taught himself to play and compose. His name is Ray Charles.

    A twelve-year-old girl was raped and became pregnant. Surely this is a perfect example of the kind of case that justifies abortion. But the girl did not abort. Her child, Ethel Waters, went on to became a famous singer and actress, appearing in theater, movies, and television.

    I was at a lecture a number of years ago by Kay Cole James, who is now the Secretary of Health for the state of Virginia. She was challenged by a member of the audience who said that children who would be born into difficult circumstances faced such a poor “quality of life” that they would be better off being aborted. Mrs James replied, suppose you were counseling a poor black woman, who already had eight children and is now pregnant again, whose husband was an alcoholic, who couldn’t afford a doctor to even deliver the baby. Of course, the woman replied, abortion would be the best thing in such a case. “Well,” Mrs James replied, “I just described my own birth. And I’ll have you know, I think my quality of life is just fine”.

  23. Paige says:
    Fri, 26th Sep 20088:48 am 

    Pat – Bravo. Thank you.

  24. Kate says:
    Fri, 26th Sep 20089:19 am 

    Pat… good point.

    I personally believe these young women who become pregnant are heavily influenced by the media to believe that they, if they choose not to abort or give their baby up for adoption (heck, even just for getting pregnant to begin with) are stupid, incapable of having, yes, a good quality of life, among other things.

    Society discriminates against these young women, I would go so far to say. You make life what it is. If you have a good attitude about things you’ll get farther than if you have a bad one. What amazes me outright are High School girls who get pregnant and drop out to take care of a baby. Wouldn’t finishing High School be beneficial? It would make everything so much more complicated for a few years, but wouldn’t it be easier in the long run?

    The part about your post that truly inspired me was Ethel Waters. Now I looked her up on Google and apparently she didn’t have the best time growing up, but the thing was that… she got somewhere with her life. And she wasn’t a total failure because of who she was born to.

    I think we should give young pregnant women that kind of support. They’re not total failures until we assess what they have done once they are dead. A woman should be able to decide what she wants for her own body, and some are definitely unable to handle having babies. That in itself justifies abortion to me. I can’t find a perfect analogy, but if there were something else in your life that wasn’t completely necessary, but some people used anyways, isn’t that a similar situation (not emotionally or physically, but in the general idea)?

    I don’t know.

  25. Kirsten says:
    Fri, 26th Sep 200811:47 pm 

    I am pro-choice but anti-abortion also. That might seem like it doesn’t make sense but it does. What doesn’t make sense is that there should EVER be an unplanned pregnancy. Birth control is free EVERYWHERE in the US for any women from 10-20 years old by going to your local health clinic. From 20 on, you can get it for $10 every three months from said clinics, and even still for free if you are below the national poverty level (but who can’t afford $3.33 a month- abortion costs a lot more!)

    Plan B is also now available without prescription to any person over the age of 18, male or female. There are planned parenthood clinics everywhere, and every county has a health clinic. I am 24 and have been sexually active for 10 years and have NEVER been pregnant. I have always spoken openly with my family about sex and as soon as my mom asked me if I was having sex I was put on birth control. Even on birth control I ALWAYS used condoms… I don’t want a disease! Aside from concern about pregnancy, aren’t these same girls worried about catching a disease that could ruin THEIR OWN life?!? How self destructive people are (not caring about their own life enough to use protection) is what bothers me the most.

    There just isn’t any reason for an unplanned pregnancy with all the of resources we have available to us these days. Even if I were raped, the first place I’d go would be to the police and then to the hospital and / or pharmacy to get my Plan B pills. I see to many girls get abortion after abortion because they are too stupid, or too lazy, or both to just take birth control. My boyfriend is the only boy in the family with many sisters, most of whom have had one or more abortions. My cousin’s biological mother has had SIX abortions and still has nine kids. The bitch needs to get sewn up. People like that SHOULDN’T have a choice.

    People need to make better choices for themselves and their lives and utilize everything available to them. Stop murdering because you are ignorant and lazy. If you don’t want a baby, don’t get pregnant in the first place. It’s that simple. It’s very easy not to- I speak from experience.

    I still think abortion should be legal, but VERY regulated, for the few and far between circumstances that really warrant it.

  26. Jellybean says:
    Sat, 27th Sep 20089:36 pm 

    Autumn,I am specifically calling you out on this one. First off, the whole argument about the less than 8 month old fetus being solely a clump of cells is complete crap. You and I are both simply both clumps of cells, but I don’t suggest killing either one of us if the circumstances make our deaths an easy fix. The only difference between our clump of cells and the fetus’ clumps of cells is that we are simply a bigger clump of cells. If we were to use your reasoning, anyone is considered “short” should be killed because they are a smaller clump of cells than a “tall” person. As for the use of social resources, how do you view children who do not get an education? Are they also deviod of this social resource required to have a license to life.

    I also want to comment on your statement that, “She is real, she is present, and we have all put time and energy into her.” Are you going to tell me that the fetus was just formed? I am pretty sure that it took quite a few minutes and sweat to consummate the child. Not to mention, that the fetus is obviously real and present or else the fetus wouldn’t even exist.

    As for the opportunity of the woman, what about the opportunity of the fetus? That “blob of cells” only gets one opportunity to live, and abortion takes that away from her or him. The woman should not be so selfish as to waste her child’s life in order to wait for a better time. Her choice to have sex should mean that she realized the possibility of getting pregnant and is capable of dealing with the consequences without committing murder. A bank robber knows that the moment he holds up the bank, he has accepted the consequences of his actions, good or bad. Everyone needs to be responsible for their own actions AND CONSEQUENCES!

    As for your stupid little comment you added in parentheses, it doesn’t make sense. Pregnant sows are not sent to market. No commercial pork producer would waste the life of both the pregnant sow and her piglets. As for not throwing murder around like it’s confetti, how about not throwing a fetus around? Plus, we’re only using murder where it actually applies as such – rather than using “clump of cells” to describe a life.

  27. Autumn says:
    Sun, 28th Sep 20082:10 am 

    Jellybean, when was the last time you were at the abattoire? They are not run by your mythical “pork producer” The farmer raises the animals. They are sold at auction.

    If they wind up pregnant in the slaughterhouse, tough shit.

    Where do you think the fetal pigs that populate hundreds of thousands of highschool biology labs come from?

    Stupid little comment… You make me smile, stooping to rudeness.

    You are dwelling too much on the terms I framed my comments in. You know as well as I do that your parents have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in order for you to be alive, and actually capable of even accessing a computer to write your reactionary drivel. There are members of your community who love you very much, support you, and make an effort to sustain your life spiritually and mentally.

    A foetus has not had any resources put into it, besides a bit of sweat, jizz, and spit. Two people are fucking, and have somehow screwed up.

    The foetus is nothing. Go look up the time when synapses form, that actualy permit brain activity and sensation. Umm, around 6 months.

    Thus, it makes as much sense to kill a foetus before 6 months as it does a jellyfish.

    Quite frankly, you sound like the sort of person who screams at the sight of mice, or would raid ants to death. If you’re a meat eater, you condemn pigs and calves to death. They have been proven to be smarter than a 4 year old child. Imagine how smart they are full grown?

    I don’t condone killing a foetus that could breath on its own if cut out of the womb. At that point, it’s game over. Have the kid.

    “As for the use of social resources, how do you view children who do not get an education? Are they also deviod (your miss-spelling) of this social resource required to have a license to life.”

    Oh please. You missed the point completely. Education is given to a child after it has been born. The original point, if you’ll re-read more closely, was that no effort is put into making the mass of cells that will form a foetus.

    The effort is put into that woman, who happens to have that particular womb.

    No one debates whether or not the foetus exists. We debate whether that foetus is worth the sacrifice of a fully developed human life. I say, I don’t care if I aborted the next great artist. It doesn’t matter in the long run…

    As this planet steadily plows forth to a population number that is even now currently unsustainable by our environment, I question the assholes who continue to populate this planet without giving a damn about any other organism or ecosystem. At least a woman who is considering the possibility of abortion is considering the importance of her choice in both small and big pictures. Not just whelping like puppies in a puppy mill, as you appear to propose.

    BTW, the next time you consider posting a rebuttal, take a look at the objective of the original article. They asked for viewpoints, not a debate. Why do you feel the need to attack my views?

    I never suggested that you were a fool for feeling the way you do… rather, you can hang yourself on that one without any assistance.

    Thanks for sharing. Now, how about writing about your own views, instead of mine?

  28. Autumn says:
    Sun, 28th Sep 20082:30 am 

    In addition, sweet “Jellybean”, you might be more credible if you took the time to actually read with an open mind to the viewpoints of other people. That way, if you wind up in an unwanted pregnancy situation, you might understand the philosophies behind the choices available to you.

    The purpose of these forums is to generate food for thought, not idiotic flame wars. I did not refer to any poster’s views: I stated my own.

    An open mind, my sweetie, will get you a lot further in life…

  29. ccmm says:
    Sun, 28th Sep 200810:46 am 

    ok…First of all…

    Who is rude now? Second of all:

    Don’t refer to meat eaters like we are terrible people. I have lived on a farm my entire life and let me tell you, sending my animals to market and or eating them myself is no picnic, but it is part of that life. And yes, cows and pigs are extremely intelligent and have their own personalities and can be just like people.

    But do not compare them to people when it comes to saving their life. You also can’t compare us to wolves and how they “have more options.” We weren’t given that natural option. If it isn’t within us in the first place, it shouldn’t be a choice.

    Also, you are not just killing a person or murdering someone, you are murdering potential. That fetus may grow up to be something greater than you ever imagined. You could possibly be murdering the potential of providing something great to mankind.

  30. Autumn says:
    Sun, 28th Sep 20081:55 pm 

    ccmm, thank you for your time and effort. However, I was not posting to you; Jellybean initiated this attack on my personal views, and I have responded. I’m sorry you are offended by my response, but it was not directed towards anyone but Jellybean.

    I am an omnivore, who happily eats animals. My point is that I cannot personally justify being willing to kill another sentient species, just because they aren’t human; and then turn around and protest that a cellular mass that has only the potential for a human life is more valuable. I must take a holistic view of my world.

    That is why I say grace at dinner, and thank the animal for giving up their life to sustain me.

    I respect the opportunity and potential that a foetus has; I appreciate the loss of the opportunity in order to support the life of that very special woman who just cannot be pregnant at this point in her life.

    By rejecting the wolf argument that it wouldn’t be natural for us to adopt similar survival strategies in terms of birth, this mentality could also be taken as follows:

    Perhaps people who are born with a deformity or another physical or mental challenge shouldn’t be given artificial assistance in the form of wheelchairs or hearing aids, as that is also un-natural.

    Nature is not perfect in her production of animals or humans. Sometimes, cell division doesn’t go according to plan. We continually artificially support fellow human beings that would otherwise perish in the wild. I don’t feel that is much different than providing an artifical alternative to pregnancy (which for some people is a major disability at that point in their lives).

    I appreciate the time and effort that all of the posters on this board have put into expressing themselves.

    Once again, these are my own views. Don’t be intolerant of my perceptions; write about your own views without targeting me :)

  31. Amy says:
    Sun, 28th Sep 20089:13 pm 

    Pat

    I don’t think anyone here believes that a fetus is undeserving of life but sometimes tough choices have to be made. It is a sacrifice to have a child and a sacrifice to have an abortion and it is up to the individual woman to decide which path is best for her.

    I think it’s pretty despicable that you would sacrifice a woman for a fetus, for something that is little more than potential.

    And to say that women who get pregnant shouldn’t have had sex if they weren’t prepared to have a child is like saying you shouldn’t drive a car if you aren’t prepared to crash and die. If you ever are hurt in a car accident, I promise to help you instead of leaving you to “deal with the consequences of your choices” as you’re so eager to do to women across the nation.

  32. Autumn says:
    Mon, 29th Sep 200812:51 am 

    BTW, Oprah Winfrey went throught a tragic teen preganancy at the tender, innocent age of 14 after being sexually assaulted repeatedly throughout her childhood:

    “In February’s O Magazine, Oprah talks about her pregnancy at 14 — and its enduring shame. From a pretty obnoxious article in ET Online:

    “I would tell no one until I felt safe enough to share my dark past,” Oprah says in the February issue of O magazine, which is on stands now. “The years I was sexually abused, from age 10 to 14, my resulting promiscuity as a teenager, and finally, at 14, my becoming pregnant.”

    Oprah says she was so ashamed that she hid the pregnancy until her growing belly and swollen ankles revealed the truth. Oprah gave birth to the baby, but it sadly died in the hospital weeks after it was born.

    Decades later, Oprah continues to feel ashamed:

    “A member of my family, who has since passed away, had gone to Florida, headquarters for the National Enquirer, sat in a room, told them the story of my hidden shame — and left their offices $19,000 richer,” she reveals.

    After the news hit the tabloids, Oprah admits that she had to drag herself out of bed for work because no matter what, the show ruled.

    “I felt beaten and scared,” she says. “I imagined that every person on the street was going to point their finger at me and scream, ‘Pregnant at 14, you wicked girl…’” ”

    What would have happened if abortion had been an option for Oprah? Would that little 14 year old girl have suffered through 9 months of ridicule from her peers, and abuses from her family, only to have her born baby die?

    Would she be less traumatized today?

    We don’t know. It doesn’t sound like abortion was a choice that she was given. That is why it is imperative that abortion remains an accessible choice for women everywhere, no matter what. It is a very hard choice. No one denies that.

    But is abortion any more challenging than the trauma Oprah went through, as a little girl? I think it would have been kinder to take her out of her misery, with a gentle pediatrician ending her anguish through a quick abortion in the first 3 months.

  33. Bunny says:
    Mon, 29th Sep 20089:15 am 

    Autumn, thank you for proving to me intelligence and an open mind really are important :} Personally, i agree that it is the women in questions choice, but anyone considering it should bear in mind that an abortion can cause trauma and even long term mental damage in some women, as far as I’m aware. I’m not just taking shots in the dark; I, thankfully, have never had to go through it but I know several women who have, including one who also gave a child up for adoption. (and Heather, i have never thought about your last point before – all the children growing up without parents or homes. Fortunately the little boy my friend had was adopted and lives with a decent family, but thats a very valid point i’ve never heard made before in the abortion/adoption argument.)

    I don’t understand the people who make hate comments to people who have to undergo abortions though. Like the trauma of losing what could have been a baby isn’t enough, without others condemning them for it.

    xox

  34. Pat says:
    Mon, 29th Sep 20084:42 pm 

    =============================================

    Amy said: “I think it’s pretty despicable that you would sacrifice a woman for a fetus, for something that is little more than potential.”

    =============================================

    I didn’t write you are quoting. Although I assume you are taking what I said to an implicated conclusion.

    To be honest, I don’t kow how to say what I’d like say without sounding to abrupt or ticked off.

    I wish that men would respect women more. I wish that young men (and our culture as a whole) would see women as future spouses, mothers and friends. Would I tell my friend, sister or daughter (or my mother when she was a young woman) that I think it’s best for her to have sex with “who ever” outside of a comitted relationship (i.e. marriage)? Should I tell my brother or my son that it’s ok to have sex with a woman when ever he feels like? Is it proper for a man, even with permission, to be sexually active with a woman who is not his spouse? I know it sounds “prudish” to say so, but what do we expect to get from a culture that won’t hold itself to a higher moral standard?

    Unfortunately, it seems that where the morals and boundries of women go, so goes the culture. There is a quote attributed to Mae West that says, “When a girl goes bad – men go right after her.”. I think there is some truth to that. I think that when the woman says we shouldn’t, they wouldn’t. Not saying that it’s totally or only up to the woman.

    =============================================

    Amy said: “And to say that women who get pregnant shouldn’t have had sex if they weren’t prepared to have a child is like saying you shouldn’t drive a car if you aren’t prepared to crash and die.”

    =============================================

    That would be an implicated conclusion deserving of a stand ovation. I said nothing like that, or even close to it.

    Actually, I feel horrible for women that feel they have to make that decision. I wish that they didn’t. I wish that somebody had used their head before getting themselves into that situation (and I’m talking about the guy too). I’m not putting my head in the sand here, “stuff happens”.

    So how do we promote that we should “think about it” before getting to the point of having sex? We talk about sex like it was going out of style. We go on about how we want less abortions, but federally support clinics that provide abotion services. We say we want abortions to be “safe, legal and…”. Well, we used to say “rare” anyways. Now it’s just “safe and legal”. Groups fight against “parental notification laws”, yet hold these unaware parents accountable for the choices that they don’t even know that their children are making.

    I would venture to guess that in the majority of cases, these frightened young women feel the weight of disappointment, shame and embarassement that they imagine their parents would have. They fear losing the love and support of the people around them. In the majority of cases, I think that most parents know that “stuff happens”. Angry, upset, dissapointed? You bet. Kill it, quick!?!? Hmmm. I think that the majority of parents would be supportive. Cases where parents are not supportive?! You bet! Let’s be there as a society to support those women as best we can. I personally don’t think that the best way to support them is to provide for an abortion.

    Let’s say that somebody wishes to commit suicide. Perhaps they’ve done something they’re not proud of and are facing insurmountable consequences. Or perhaps they are mentally ill, and don’t like or are having difficulty managing their medications. Or perhaps they are old. Or deppressed. Or sick. Or, heck, they just don’t see the point in living anymore. Would the acceptable thing be to support “safe suicide centers” where people can come in and have “safe and legal” suicides? Is it heartless of me to think that I should want somebody to potentially be the victim of a botched suicide attempt? That family members would be faced with the horror of finding their loved one dead, rather than providing for a death that’s safe, legal and effective? Aren’t there problems that exist, that got them to that point, that we should be addressing? May not there be on going issues that we should be addressing also? Is it sane to say that we should support suicide? Some people do think that it’s sane. In my opinion, it’s not.

    By the way, people do die in car accidents. You should know that. You should want others to know that too. When you drive on the opposite side of the road, accidents are even more likely to happen.

  35. Autumn says:
    Mon, 29th Sep 200811:54 pm 

    Not looking to stoke flames, just to add some information:

    I understand that mainstream Western society looks upon suicide unfavourably, likely due to the Christian dogma that underlies the development of most of Western culture

    However, there are a number of cultures throughout the world that support suicide at a certain point in someone’s life. In some Polar Native cultures, elders conciously make the choice to be killed humanely by the members of their clan when that elder no longer feels that he or she is contributing positively to the group. Same goes for any other member at any other age. Obviously, it is discussed in the community before the suicide occurs, but the group supports that individual’s decision to end their life.

    Some other circum-polar aboriginal groups also apply social justice on the family level. If there is someone who is aggressively attacking/raping/murdering other members of the community to the point where he/she has become unmanagable, their family has the social onus to either solve the situation or kill the offender. It is an understood social contract, and first-hand stories indicate that the offender is rarely surprised by their impending death. Rather, it is openly accepted from a senior male member of the clan.

    Source: anthropology class 2 years ago, involving a heckuv a lot of reading :)

    So, just wanted to note that other societies apart from our Western version have different perceptions of suicide than we do…

    http://www.finalexit.org/pract-swiss.html

  36. Pat says:
    Tue, 30th Sep 200812:44 am 

    How terrible. I’m old and useless, I think I’ll kill myself. I suppose that if we all decide that he’s right, he is useless, that makes it ok. Is that compassion or convenience? It would make for a dramatic scene in a movie. In real life, they really kill themselves, comforted by the knowledge that everybody is ok with his useless life being out of the way.

    Sorry to get off topic. At least it’s still a life and death issue.

  37. Carol says:
    Thu, 2nd Oct 20083:57 am 

    Carina said: “…women supporting women, it was a movement, maybe you heard about it?”

    Yes, what about the FUTURE women, you know, the ones that HALF (or more) the aborted babies would have been?

    How about supporting ALL humans, especially those that have no choice at all?

    “Pro life is selfish…”

    Hmmmm, so, my kids make it harder for me to live my life the way I did before I had them, cost too much, make messes, and require my attention daily.It is harder to socialize, work and get educated. I can no longer do whatever I want, whenever I want. So,I will just quietly get rid of them,drop them at the Children’s Services Office, cry about how much it hurts me to do so, then convince myself everyone is better off. No matter that they suffer in foster homes. What’s that? Their FATHER? None of his business. I don’t care what other people say. I have the right to do whatever I want with my children. They are no more than an extension of me.

    Now, what if I KILLED them? How PRO CHOICE would YOU be?

    The taking of a human life because it is inconvenient is beyond selfish. It is disgusting.

  38. Guy Thompto says:
    Tue, 23rd Dec 200810:06 pm 

    So she had an abortion. Her kid is dead. So she went to college. Her kid will never see the light of day. So she gave birth. Her kid will never know her sibling. So she has a nice life. Her kid is dead.

  39. ME says:
    Thu, 22nd Jan 20093:18 pm 

    Thank you, Autumn! You have some AMAZING insights. I feel sorry for all of the people posting the judgemental views. Mistakes happen in life and people have to make difficult choices. (FYI: A woman can still become pregnant while on ANY type of birth control. Be it pills, patch, etc. No birth control is 100 percent effective.) There will always be unplanned pregnancies and there will always be women STRUGGLING with the decision of what to do. You should never judge someone until you have been in there shoes. And yes, if you have EVER had sex (even on birth control) you could have ended up in that position, too! I can’t believe how incredible rude and insensitive some of these posts have been.

  40. ME says:
    Thu, 22nd Jan 20093:20 pm 

    Their*

    and

    Incredibly*

    …sorry I tend to get a little ahead of myself.

  41. Raya says:
    Fri, 17th Apr 200910:17 pm 

    This has been a heated topic since women were given the right to choose. All it does is seem to inspire haters and arguments, from right wings to left wings, on all points of the map. We are all humans; we all have the right to say what we believe in, we have the right to speak our minds. Freedom of speach, thought, and choice right?

    I can honestly say that I have never been in that situation, and hopefully I never will. I am very careful with my long term partner, have gotten tested, practice safe sex. I would die an old women if I took the advice to simply “not have sex to not get pregnant” I hope that I will never get the chance to have a child. I simply do not want one.

    However, if I am ever faced with that possibility, I can say without shame, without fear of faceless haters here on this blog site that I would choose for MY right to live.

    Despite the coments that getting pregnant is completely avoidable, do you remember the printed lines on the package that male and female birth control methods, even when practiced together with 100% accuracy and devotion, is NEVER 100%. There IS a chance that even with male sterilization, a women could still get pregnant.

    To suggest that I would abort simply because I want to ignore my “responbilities” and continue on in my ignorant selfishness is beyond my ability to describe. I would never ever make the choice to abort because I wanted an easier life.

    I have a heart condition, whereas my heart doctor sat me down and explained to me that if I got pregnant and went through with having the child, that I would die. No if’s ands or buts here. I WILL die. I will leave my husband without a wife, and a child without his/her mother, a family without their daughter/sister/neice. A pack of loyal friends with their friend. A hospital with one less nurse. A life that is no more.

    Tell me the agony that I would have to endure. Knowing that because someone tells me that I would be committing “murder”, I would have to die. That someone would tell me to my internet/real face that it would/must be fate/God’s/fill in your deitys name here that I DIE in order to have this child is nothing I can describe.

    You tell me I must cut my life short for an accident? For something that I did not choose for myself? That because I was faithful in protecting myself from this chance from happening that I must die?
    I cannot even have the operation to remove my uterus because it would be so risky to my person. I would bleed out on the operating table so quickly that there would be nothing for the doctors to do but let me die. In under 5 minutes.

    Do not presume that I am selfish, or irresponsible, to think of MY life as well. Do not presume that it would be such an easy choice for me. Do NOT presume under that guise of religous ferver and YOUR personal sense of right and wrong what would be the right choice for me. You are not me.

    I am just as entitled to my life as well.

    Do not judge me. I do not, and will never judge you for your beleifs, your sense of rights and wrongs, your moral base.

    Do not judge mine.

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