Israel vs. Hamas: Who is at Fault?

Anonymous Coward says:
Thu, 8th Jan 200910:11 am 

I'm singularly impressed and dumbfounded that you would even ask this question. Since I love Jews and hate Zionists, I'll answer this for you.

In this situation they are both at fault. Israel is following Bush's lead on being overly aggressive against it's 'enemies' and Hamas is really just following the same script that they've BEEN following. 'Death to the Zionists'

Technically, neither one has any reason to back off. Israel will never leave, and Hamas (and others like it) will never stop trying to make them leave, no matter what they do. Biblically of course (if you follow that sort of thing), this area of the world is what starts the last world war and pretty much brings about the day of judgement.

Want to blame someone? Blame Britain, and blame the United States, for deciding that Israel even needed to be a country, and then literally bulldozing Palestinians out of their homes and taking all of the valuable property in the region and giving it to 'israelis'. Why do you think they're so mad, do you really believe the 'YOU ARE THE INFIDEL' crap?

Come on.

Grow up.

bekah says:
Thu, 8th Jan 200910:33 am 

Your whole explanation of the conflict is not only biased, but ignorant. You did an excellent job of highlighting how Israel is constantly under attack and Israelis live in constant fear, but what about the Palestinians? What about the fact that they have been forced from their land and not allowed to return home? What about the fact that those who are being massacred in Gaza now are not there by choice, most of them are refugees who were forced out of their homes during the establishment of Israel. What about the fact that Israel has created an open air prison of Gaza since 1967, blockading them in and not always allowing food, water, and basic medical supplies in. Although Hamas has done some atrocious things, the people of Gaza are not to blame, let alone be murdered. In fact, international law says Israel's current actions in Gaza are illegal because it can be considered collective punishment. Both sides are to blame, but Israel, contrary to popular belief, is not the underdog. Hamas is not the only party that needs to revise its actions.

Jasmine says:
Thu, 8th Jan 200911:39 am 

FREE PALESTINE!

learn the truth:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Mallory says:
Thu, 8th Jan 20091:14 pm 

I'm completely shocked that this would be posted here on CollegeCandy.

You, like so many other uninformed American lemmings are completely biased towards Israel.

Like others have already commented on, the situation is WAY more complicated than you have made it out to be. My school has a large Jewish community and I have many friends that are both Jewish and Muslim, and not even I will pretend to 100% comprehend the situation going on over there. I certainly won't disrespect the cultures involed by oversimplifying it in the insulting way you did.

(On a personal sidenote, I'd like to point out that even if Israel is working on behalf of their people to destroy Hamas, the amount of civilian casualties brought on by Israel's violence is repulsive. Also, the average normal Muslim Palestinian is NOT a suicide bomber – people don't just decide to strap bombs to themselves and kill other human beings. Being Muslim or Palestinian doesn't make you a terrorist.)

I think everyone is making things worse by polarizing the situation and trying to decide who is at fault. THEY BOTH ARE, so let's keep that in mind and protest for PEACE FOR EVERYONE.

Seriously, I'm sorely disappointed in your article.

JMS says:
Thu, 8th Jan 20094:04 pm 

Here are the facts that the News won’t mention when they slant is sooo obviously towards Hamas. What the rest of the world doesn’t realize is that what the terrorists seek to do to Israel first- they hope to carry out with the rest of the world after. First it’s down the with Jews and then it’s down with the West and so on and so on. I’m not saying this is the answer- but wouldn’t you fight back if you lived in a land where for your entire existance, people strapped bombs on themselves and walked on to busses and into coffee shops to kill innocent people for the sake of being Jewish?! Israel is not firing at hamas because they want death to palestinians- in fact, they have tried many times to create peace and give them a place to live- something other arab countries wouldn’t even do for them- Rather Israel is fighting to say we won’t accept this anymore- yet Hamas refuses to back down and make peace. Why? Simple- because they won’t be happy until there are no more Jews and no more Israel.

Some Facts:

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab la nds to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people’s lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .

13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The PLO’s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

jessy says:
Thu, 8th Jan 20095:02 pm 

hamas started firing rockets at israel, and now israel is trying to make sure that by acting disproportionately they'll be able to deter others from attacking them, which makes perfect sense. now all the reasons why they're fighting in the first place, way to complicated to bother getting into. with the whole hamas location thing, why don't they just go to palestine? aren't they palestinian? don't get mad, it's just an honest question. besides, hamas shouldn't be surprised that they're being attacked right back; i mean seriously, what did they expect was going to happen?

peaceonearth says:
Thu, 8th Jan 20096:54 pm 

I agree a life lost is a life lost no matter what side it's on- and we should all be in support of human rights. But what people are ignoring is that its Hamas who started this in the first place. Sending up to 300 rockets a day into schools and areas where civilians live… How much longer should Israel just sit there and take it without finally fighting back?

What would America do if Mexico was sending rockets into California everyday killing innocent people? We would send our armies and fight back.

Yes its horrible that right now innocent palestinians are being killed- but Israelis are too- and not just now- maybe its smaller in proportion right this very week or minute- but over the last few years? How many civilian Israeli lives were lost? By the couple at their wedding? by the little kids in kindergarten? by the innocent people grabbing their slice of pizza? too many. and not because Hamas is fighting against terrorism. They are fighting to destroy the right for the Jews to have a country. to have a home- that is smaller than the state of New Jersey. They are sending rockets and bombs to kill people on the basis of their religion.

Israel is trying to make peace. but Hamas won't settle- so they have to level with them somehow and until Hamas is ready to make peace, unfortunatley this is how its going to have to be done… lets just hope some good comes out of it all and that these lives lost on both sides aren't in vain.

Claire says:
Fri, 9th Jan 200912:58 am 

Dear CollegeCandy —

Regardless of what some readers may think, I'd like to thank you for making this bold choice, and bravely making a post on this issue. Rather than being biased, I can see that all you're doing is giving a brief backstory before encouraging people to make up their own minds. In a world where the media skews everything, that is valuable.

This is a serious situation which deserves to be debated. Thank you for posting this article.

C

Hammad says:
Fri, 9th Jan 20094:55 am 

Im not going to indulge into deep details but history just likes to repeat itself. It was the POPE#1 who said to take back israel from muslims and in muslim’s 1400some yrs history this is the third time Israel has been taken from muslims. The first two times muslims got it back without war. and all three times muslims have been mass murdered. I dont know if u remember or not but there was a movie called “The Kingdom” where a soldier named slah ud din ayyuubi takes Jerusalem back without war.

I hope there is already a soldier like that who is born and will end this brutal mass murder one more time with peace. War is never good. Period.

Mandy says:
Fri, 9th Jan 20095:31 am 

Israel may have a right to defend herself, but should think twice about the humanitarian implications of these actions. Yes, Hamas is known for putting the citizens at risk by positioning themselves in near schools, populated areas, etc. But it seems highly unethical to me for Israel to consistently block aid relief from unaffliated organizations like the Red Cross. HUNDREDS of civilians have been trapped in the rubble for days without food or water due to the blockades the Israeli military has put up to prevent aid relief and medical supplies from getting through.

To imply that Israeli citizens alone face the challenges of "suicide bombers getting on their busses, coming into their schools and destroying their daily lives" is just ignorant. I think you would find equally severe hardships on the other side of the coin, as well as throughout plenty of other cities in the middle east.

This is a complicated situation, and BOTH sides have a stake in the blame. Let's not pretend it's as simple as 'who is the monster here'?

Ziggy Stardust says:
Fri, 9th Jan 20094:59 pm 

I personally don’t agree with the violence. There is so much hate between these peoples that it makes my heart sick. So much wrongdoing on both sides. Instead of pointing fingers we should unite in an effort to help educate each side about the humanity of the other. By educating the youth and supporting programs that see Palestinians and Israelis unite in a common goal will hopefully bring the peace that both sides desperately need.

P.S. Before truly forming an opinion it should be important for everyone to note media bias in both directions.

Anonymous Coward says:
Fri, 9th Jan 200910:09 pm 

JMS, you’re a douchebag.. Just kidding, here’s my response to your ‘arguments’.

1. That’s great. Why don’t we make bring back more countries who lacked central government, leadership. The jewish nation as it is today is comprised of people scattered to the winds many years ago.

2. No shit, everyone knows this, that’s not the point. The point is, someone took their home, whether or not the had a government, or needed one, is irrelevent. The pain of losing your home yesterday is a lot harder than the pain of losing your home thousands of years ago.

3. What dominion, there was no form of established government. Also, Israel REALLY refers to the jewish people. Don’t read wikipedia for answers jackass.

4. You’re right. But how is that relevant?

5. Irrelevant, this is not about that.

6. More irrelevant, do you know how to make an argument?

7. Again, irrelevant, this has nothing to do with what happened 50 years ago. With your style of arguments, every nation of old should be resurrected.

8. Muslims don’t pray with their backs to Jerusalem in defiance, they pray towards Mecca…you’re as bad as the media.

9. You are the king (or queen) of irrelevant commentary.

10. This argument goes both ways. I worked in the Gaza strip with doctor’s without borders for 2 years.

11. Dude, make a relavent comment…so THEY SWAPPED THE MUSLIMS FOR THE JEWS IS WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. There’s a difference between having the time to sell your assets and leave comfortably (jews) and having to flee your home because of a conflict (arabs).

12. Arab nations are divided because they are all different people, they all have their own national identities. Jews identify with Israel. Palestinians had no national identity before their lands were ‘stolen’ from them.

13. Israel has money (from the us), and weapons (from the us). The way the US and other western countries horde technological resources, it’s no surprise that the arab nations can’t compete (again not blaming the us for this, but the amount of aid given to israeli citizens per capita is SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER than the amount of aid given to Palestinians. in fact at one point it differed by a margin of 100.).

14. The PLO is as bad as Zionists. No argument there.

15. True, those guys are retarded, considering that Islam has verses in the Koran which explicitly state that you must tolerate the religions of others.

16. Who refuses to listen.

17. Same as 16. This is the ally that admittedly performs espionage within our borders on our citizens to steal our technology.

18, 19, 20. Blame the UN, can you claim that they’re run by the Moslems? It’s not like anyone listens to them anyways.

anon says:
Sat, 10th Jan 200911:40 am 

30 rockets hit Israel Friday. In ’07-’08, Hamas fired 4681 rockets & mortars into Israel.

What would you do if someone was attacking your home and your chidren? I agree violence is not the answer- but hamas won’t back down. While israel has created shelters for their civilians- Hamas hides behind their women and children in hope that it will either deter the IDF from striking OR make it look like Israel is aiming at their civilians. Israel wants to talk to Hamas but Hamas refuses. So what are they supposed to do? sit back and let rockets hit their schools, homes, busses, coffee shops etc?!

read this says:
Sat, 10th Jan 200911:45 am 

The Jews Face A Double Standard. Why doesn’t Israel have the same right to self-defense as other nations?

The world-wide protests against Israel’s ground incursion into Gaza are so full of hatred that they leave me with the terrible feeling that these protests have little to do with the so-called disproportionality of the Israeli response to Hamas rockets, or the resulting civilian casualties.

My fear is that the rage we see in the protesters marching in the streets is far more profound and dangerous than we would like to believe. There are a great many people in the world who, even after Auschwitz, just can’t bear the Jewish state having the same rights they so readily grant to other nations. These voices insist Israel must take risks they would never dare ask of any other nation-state — risks that threaten its very survival — because they don’t believe Israel should exist in the first place.

Just look at the spate of attacks this week on Jews and Jewish institutions around the world: a car ramming into a synagogue in France; a Chabad menorah and Jewish-owned shops sprayed with swastikas in Belgium; a banner at an Australian rally demanding “clean the earth from dirty Zionists!”; demonstrators in the Netherlands chanting “Gas the Jews”; and in Florida, protestors demanding Jews “Go back to the ovens!”

How else can we explain the double-standard that is applied to the Gaza conflict, if not for a more insidious bias against the Jewish state?

At the U.N., no surprise, this double-standard is in full force. In response to Israel’s attack on Hamas, the Security Council immediately pulled an all-night emergency meeting to consider yet another resolution condemning Israel. Have there been any all-night Security Council sessions held during the seven months when Hamas fired 3,000 rockets at half a million innocent civilians in southern Israel? You can be certain that during those seven months, no midnight oil was burning at the U.N. headquarters over resolutions condemning terrorist organizations like Hamas. But put condemnation of Israel on the agenda and, rain or shine, it’s sure to be a full house.

Red Cross officials are all over the Gaza crisis, describing it as a full-blown humanitarian nightmare. Where were they during the seven months when tens of thousands of Israeli families could not sleep for fear of a rocket attack? Where were their trauma experts to decry that humanitarian crisis?

There have been hundreds of articles and reports written from the Erez border crossing falsely accusing Israel of blocking humanitarian supplies from reaching beleaguered Palestinians in Gaza. (In fact, over 520 truck loads of humanitarian aid have been delivered through Israeli crossings since the beginning of the Israeli counterattack.) But how many news articles, NGO reports and special U.N. commissions have investigated Hamas’s policy of deliberately placing rocket launchers near schools, mosques and homes in order to use innocent Palestinians as human shields?

Many people ask why there are so few Israeli casualties in comparison with the Palestinian death toll. It’s because Israel’s first priority is the safety of its citizens, which is why there are shelters and warning systems in Israeli towns. If Hamas can dig tunnels, it can certainly build shelters. Instead, it prefers to use women and children as human shields while its leaders rush into hiding.

And then there are the clarion calls for a cease-fire. These words, which come so easily, have proven to be a recipe for disaster. Hamas uses the cease-fire as a time-out to rearm and smuggle even more deadly weapons so the next time, instead of hitting Sderot and Ashkelon, they can target Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

The pattern is always the same. Following a cease-fire brought on by international pressure, there will be a call for a massive infusion of funds to help Palestinians recover from the devastation of the Israeli attack. The world will respond eagerly, handing over hundreds of millions of dollars. To whom does this money go? To Hamas, the same terrorist group that brought disaster to the Palestinians in the first place.

The world seems to have forgotten that at the end of World War II, President Harry Truman initiated the Marshall Plan, investing vast sums to rebuild Germany. But he did so only with the clear understanding that the money would build a new kind of Germany — not a Fourth Reich that would continue the policies of Adolf Hitler. Yet that is precisely what the world will be doing if we once again entrust funds to Hamas terrorists and their Iranian puppet masters.

In less than two weeks, Barack Obama will be sworn in as president of the United States. But there is no “change we can believe in” in the Middle East — not where Israel is concerned. The double-standard continuously applied to the Jewish state proves that, for much of the world, the real lessons of World War II have yet to be learned.

snarktastic says:
Sun, 11th Jan 20094:58 am 

the only reason israel exists is because following world war two, the UN and western powers felt guilty for not doing anything to help the persecuted jews, so they took palestinian land away to create a state. it's illegitimate as a state, so i suppose you could say that the US is at fault for the problems!

Liz27 says:
Sun, 11th Jan 20096:57 pm 

I was in Israel 2 weeks ago when Hamas sent over 60 rockets into the West Bank. As someone who is Jewish but goes to a very liberal school, I see both sides of the issue. It's neither sides fault entirely. But it is hard to argue that diplomatic discussions alone will make a difference with a government that makes eradication the Jewish state as part of their platform. We can argue all we want who first settled the land, but does that really matter now. The situation is unlivable. Having a boyfriend fighting in Gaza right now, I can't do anything but pray these two countries can atleast come to some livable agreement.

Anon says:
Thu, 15th Jan 20096:02 am 

Your question is flawed. It is true that Hamas is a terrible organization guilty of countless crimes against Israel, but this doesn't excuse Israel's disproportionate military response. Picture this if you will. The borders of the Gaza strip have been closed for two years. These people have nowhere to go. And yet Israel has been cutting supplies and electricity to them and bombing them just to get to the few Hamas militants who are targetting Israel. People in the Gaza strip are suffering at near catastrophic levels. Israel should take responsibility for this. And just repeating that Hamas is to blame (with which I partly agree) is NOT an excuse.

to "Read this&q says:
Thu, 15th Jan 20096:13 am 

I was very surprised when I read your post on the double standard the world has with respect to Israel. I have to agree there is a huge double standard in place. But I think it's completely in favor of Israel not against.

It is true that there is a lot of hollow talking going around, but it's only because no action is being taken. How many governments in the world have taken political action against Israel? (trade embargos etc.?) Were it any other country in the world, they'd have already been threatened by economic sanctions. Not to mention the billions of dollars the US shovels into Israel every year in support of its military.

Another important double standard, is the problem of nuclear weapons. Israel is the only country to develope nuclear weapons without ever being labeled as evil. (look at Iran, North Korea. You might say these are rogue states, but there's a double standard right there. Israel = good, ok to have nukes. Iran, N. Korea = bad, not Ok to have nukes).

It's true. There is some talk condemning Israel's actions. But it's only a small response to the lack of political action on the part of western governments caused by a double standard already at play in favor of Israel.

Lauren, University o says:
Thu, 15th Jan 20096:41 am 

Maybe Israel isnt being viewed as evil because it is the only democratic state in the middle east (and on that list).

And think about it: if someone bombed US (or ran planes into our buildings) we would do whatever we could to protect ourselves. That's the reason we went into Iraq (allegedly) and Afghanistan, isnt it?

Israel has caused massive destruction and murder in its efforts against Hamas, but no one seems to say anything about the bombs being lobbed at Israel. Every country has aright to protect itself, and that is what Israel is doing.

Jes says:
Fri, 16th Jan 20093:41 pm 

Annnnnd the real question to me should be:

DOESN'T EVEYONE SEE HOW FUCKED UP RELIGION IS?

Ever since recorded history all it's really done is spurn murder, hate, wars…

Muslims and Jews, Catholics and Muslims, Catholics and Protestants, Evangelicals and the world…

Dear god. The only somewhat peaceful religions I've seen so far is the eastern religions, (ie Buddhists) and I know even they have tons of crap to deal with. It just makes me so sad, and so sick to my stomach.

God must be really disappointed.

Jes says:
Fri, 16th Jan 20093:42 pm 

I know, of course, that its not NEARLY as simple as that, but doesn't it seem to always come back to it?

…sigh

bh oiuou says:
Sat, 17th Jan 20096:29 am 

what every tax paying american should know is that, our tax money ( about 60 million every year is being sent to israel since it was formed, about 13,000 dollars for each citizen of israel, the have the military they have because of our tax dollars, our tanks, our planes and our bombs, we even gave them MANY ATOMIC BOMBS, when you read about palastinians being killed its out tax money that is funding this. WE ahve armed them and continue to arm them, america will defend them at any cost, our new president his cheif of staff who is a DUEL CITIZEN OF ISRAEL, no other country can someone be a duel citizen, you cant be a duel citezen of russia and united states, or canada of the united states, you are either one or the other, but with israel there is duel citizenship, It is obvious where our new cheif of staff’s loyalty lies he has done alot ofr israel in congress(more then he has done for the U.S.)

if this turns into the US will be involved, weather its right or wrong what israel is doing to gaza strip does not matter, all that matters is the united states continues to arm and defend israel and will unitll the bitter end

SCR says:
Mon, 19th Jan 200911:59 pm 

Stop US aid to Israel!

Tugba says:
Mon, 26th Jan 200910:32 am 

Wow. I am very disappointed. This is completely biased. First of all for all those claiming that Hamas is attacking and Hamas is a terrorist organization yadda yaddaaa.

Hamas was elected democratically. They are not terrorists the military part of Hamas is only trying to defend themselves.

Israel has put strict borders on Palestine. Food can't get in neither can necessary humanitarian aid. I know that if I was trapped in a cage as these poor people are I would try and get attention and the world to see the injustice being done.

And about the ceasefire.

November 4th of last year Israel broke the ceasefire by attacking Palestine and in defense Palestine attacked back. Thats only fair buddy. Check out CNN. If you dont believe me.

In addition to all of this compare Israel and Palestine. Israel has state of the art weapons they attacked the poor Palestineans with phospohorous bombs which is AGAINST international law. They know they have the USA and Britain behind them so they dont care. This world is really depressing. It sickens me too see how heartless the zionist state of Israel is. Don't get me wrong I have no problem with Jews. Zionists are completely different. SO noone should bring up that Jews hate Muslims or Muslims hate Jews bullshit

Jennifer says:
Tue, 3rd Feb 20096:26 pm 

Like, OMG! They are arguing about this over at this huge talk forum I found at:

http://blabtalk.com/israel-bombing-hamas-good-for…

Read what Debbie started in this forum, wow!

Helen Leque says:
Wed, 15th Apr 20092:03 pm 

I read her comments at that forum Jennifer, over at BlabTalk.com

Where does Debbie get off saying those kind of things?