He Said/She Said: That Girl is Crazy

Carla says:
Wed, 4th Feb 200911:25 am 

too true!

Sady says:
Wed, 4th Feb 200911:51 am 

OK, so: if she keeps "dogging on men," he's going to walk out and stop doing his job, and yet he stereotypes ALL women as having total irrational crazy-time around their periods? And that's not "dogging" on women or whatever? AND, it's not crazy?

Way too many guys assume that, if a woman is upset and on her period, she has no reason to be upset that is not entirely period-based. Basically, if you can blame a woman's opinions on her vagina, it lets you off the hook, what with your superior non-vagina-having abilities. It also ties into stereotypes of women as inherently irrational. (To be fair, the dude in these conversations regularly assumes that "guys" all think exactly the same way he does, so he's cool with stereotyping dudes as well, apparently.) The fact of the matter is, if I'm vocally upset about something during my period, it's something that would upset me at any other time of the month. It's just that I may be too worn-out with dealing with cramps and headaches and the constant fun that is bleeding out of my crotch to be polite about it or pretend it doesn't matter.

But, you know, that's just me. I'm craaazayyyy like that. Just a big crazayyyyy vagina-haver, that's me.

Liza - Grove City Co says:
Wed, 4th Feb 200911:53 am 

Don't apologize, or call yourself crazy! Thanks for standing up for us. I have to say 9 times out of 10 a girl is upset because the guy did something inconsiderate and it has NOTHING TO DO with her period.

But I do agree that everyone (girls and guys) should say something as soon as their significant other does something that bothers them. Not letting it build up then blow up – that makes anyone seem crazy

The Dude says:
Wed, 4th Feb 200912:54 pm 

Hi Sady,

I'm "the dude" you're talking about, and it seems as though my points didn't come across accurately, so I'll elaborate.

First, I never said or even implied that I think women only get upset because of their periods or that their periods cause them to fabricate things to be angry about. And I did not stereotype anything or anybody or say anyone is "irrational". That's your word. And I'm certainly not blaming anything on anyone's vagina.

I'm actually not blaming anything on anybody – I'm just saying that if a dude knows that you're on your period, he will be more sympathetic to what you're going through, that's it. More sympathetic to your cramps and your headaches and your bleeding crotch – and whatever else is happening to your body and your mood. All that is is communication, not stereotyping.

In fact, my suggestion is the exact opposite of stereotyping. What I said was to tell your boyfriend how you are affected by your period. Now, maybe you aren't affected at all. If so, then he will know not to place false blame on that. If you are affected, he'll understand what you're going through better. How can that be a bad thing?

Second, I definitely do not think all guys think the way I think. I know for a fact that they don't, and if you think I don't know that, then you haven't actually been reading these articles. However, the ENTIRE POINT of these articles is to find out what guys and girls think about a certain topic, IN GENERAL. That's what pretty much any article of this nature is doing – definitely any relationship advice article.

P.S. Doing an IM conversation once a week is NOT my job. I do it because it's fun

K says:
Wed, 4th Feb 200912:56 pm 

"Just a big crazayyyyy vagina-haver, that’s me."

that just made my day!

Marie says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20091:37 pm 

I agree with the girls, but I also feel pretty bad for the guy….he's just trying to explain his side of things. And he's always been very helpful.

I don't know. I think this might be the thing guys and girls will never agree on. At least not in general. Maybe having talks with a guy or girl that you're interested in about what constitutes "Crazy bitch" for both the men and women (who both can have crazy bitch moments regardless of gender) would be the easiest solution.

But one warning guys. Don't blame it on our periods. We'll become so pissed off we'll show you what a real crazy bitch is. : )

Gwenivere says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20092:02 pm 

I think he actually makes a very good point about the whole don't assume thing. My boyfriend would always tell me "Don't assume blah, blah, blah…" all the time and we would keep going around in this little dos-a-dos of petty arguments. Which would result in him calling me a "crazy bitch" and me calling him an asshole. When I make this statement I swear I am not calling guys ignorant. Girls, do not assume anything from your guys. I mean ANYTHING. They will never be thinking the same thing as you. EVER. It might be close sometimes, but it won't be exact. It took me about four years before I finally figured that out and now our relationship is much better. Guys aren't stupid, they just think simply. It's easier to come to the conclusion someone is a "crazy bitch" than to go through the thought process of what could have possible made them upset. And even when they try to guess what made you upset they are always WAY off the mark. So bottom line: Don't Assume.

Candie says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20092:15 pm 

I have to agree with The Dude here.I've had those 'crazy' moments too (yes, usually around my period) but I have to stop myself and think 'does he really know what's in my mind?' The answer is NO. Guys are not mind readers! as much as we'd like them to be.

Oh and dropping hints doesnt help either. Trust me Ive been there. You have to be straight up in order to make a relationship work.

jodi says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20092:29 pm 

So, could you do me a favor and ask your guy – or he could answer if he's still hanging around – why guys don't take girls seriously? All during high school, I got comments about my double Ds (not all it's cracked up to be) and tried everything I could – polite asking, freaking out, etc, etc – to get them to stop. They didn't care that it sucked for me. Now, at college, some of my guy friends started the boob jokes, and when I clearly, and I'd like to think calmly, stated that I would rather they didn't, they didn't take me seriously. What do I have to do to make them realize that I just don't appreciate the boob jokes?

Bri says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20092:46 pm 

IMS. Irritable Male Syndrome. It's real and has been documented. So if your guy is ever trying to use your period against you, use his IMSsing against him.

belle says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20093:01 pm 

ugh, i hate when men explain things away based on a girl's menstrual cycle. as if that's going to fix anything. yes, maybe she would not have reacted as severely, but i'm sure she hasn't just lost her mind during that week of menstrual bliss. how about you ask her what's wrong and then actually try to understand rather than writing her off as a pms-ing crazy…

Editor says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20093:04 pm 

Alright, alright ladies.

The point of this conversation wtih The Dude was to get some answers, not start a hate session. The truth is, he made really good points. Whether you like what he said or not, he IS a guy and he is doing just what I asked: to give me his opinion.

If you look past the superfluous IMs you will see that The Dude's point is that open communication helps. Including warning your boy when you may be PMSy so he knows that it's NOT you but your hormones that are making you cry/scream during a Kleenex commercial.

This is all very good advice, so let's stop hating on him or else we won't get much male advice on here anymore!

Jacks says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20093:18 pm 

Sady, you are fantastic!

Jes says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20094:35 pm 

I actually have to agree with the dude. I do (unlike many women, I'm sure) have serious PMS. I get upset and pissed and cry and go back to normal allll in 20 minutes, and maybe over something as silly as me presuming my boyfriend didnt want me to come over one night. If he knows its mt time of the month, he generally knows not to get upset when I'm confusing him, and just to ask me outright what's wrong. I even warn him the week before, "Hey babe, watch out, I'm starting this weekend."

When I learned several years ago to just flat out tell him why I'm upset, he immediately goes, "Oh crap, okay, thats fine…. I didnt know what you were thinking over there! Please come over, I wasnt sure if you wanted to." Or something similar… It wasnt that he wasnt listening, he jsut didnt know what language I was speaking, in a way.

The point here is: men do not have any idea what we're thinking, and yes we do have to flat out tell them. It not a girl's or guy's fault that we think/perceive differently, its just our make-up. You have to learn that guys and girls think completely differently and how to communicate clearly before you can see that it's no one's fault.

Guys need things laid out for them. And girls just need to know that once their guy KNOWS what they're thinking, he's willing to make you feel better. But we are truly two completely different creatures and its like we speak seperate languages…

Kay says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20095:08 pm 

Well I think That Dude is right. I know I get pissed off at the smallest things right before my period and Ill step back and be like "whoa.. did i just get mad that he ate the last cracker and he should have known i wanted it?" haha. Maybe not everyones like that though. Id hate to think that Im the only one who PMSes. So I dont mind being called crazy sometimes. Cause Bri also made a good point about IMS. Boys go crazy sometimes too.

The Dude says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20095:27 pm 

Hahaha…Ok, you win. I give up.

Rachel A- MO State says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20096:43 pm 

I, too, agree with The Dude. Well, let me clarify that: I can understand his statements. I think that what he said is right. He's not supposed to be an expert, just an opinion, and he does a great job of voicing his opinion as "a dude".

I opt not to voice my entire reaction to the article and subsequent replies, but suffice it to say that I appreciate having an honest male opinion in considering gender relations.

Sady says:
Wed, 4th Feb 20097:58 pm 

Hey, dude!

Actually, I do read this feature pretty frequently. What I’ve noticed is that you, unlike the other person in this conversation, do in fact tend to stereotype or generalize more than the other person, and to fall back on stereotypes in order to justify your arguments. Those stereotypes tend to be demeaning to women. You also tend to lecture your conversational partner rather than listening to her, putting your opinions across as indisputable truth. You may not realize that you’re doing it, but it’s there. You furthermore tend to blame girls for having emotional needs that conflict with pleasing their menfolks, and in fact the whole emphasis on man-pleasing, rather than both sides of a relationship having equal responsibility (or, hell, girls and guys having something else to talk about other than relationships) has been off-putting for quite a while now.

Case in point: in the last “He Said/She Said” – don’t have time to read through the whole archive and discuss this point-by-point, sorry – you said that red flags included (a) having an eating disorder, a serious illness that rises in many cases from poor self-esteem, and can’t possibly be helped by callous rejection, nor cured because some random guy finds it inconvenient, (b) having been pissed off by a former boyfriend, (c) going to a therapist, or (d) objecting to you for oh-so-classily ogling other women in front of them. You also said that “every girl you’ve dated has seemed a little crazy,” which you attribute to them being girls (oh, will the sexes EVER understand each other? Let’s make sure they don’t by calling girls “crazy” when they talk about their inner lives!) and saying that you can only put up with it because they’re hot. So, you know, women are only valuable for their bodies, which are there to be hot and fuckable, and their minds and emotions just get in the way. I don’t know if you know how disrespectful, ugly, and sexist you sounded – maybe you’ve never really been called out on it in the past – but trust me, that was exactly how you came across. You have to think about whether or not that’s who you want to be.

By the bye, dude? Restricting women’s value as human beings to having “hot” bodies, and disregarding their emotional needs? Not necessarily UNrelated to the prevalence of eating disorders in this world.

And yes, when asked what women could do to make sure their men don’t think they’re crazy, the “first thing,” the most important thing, the first place your mind went, was their periods. As if THAT, not your own deficiencies in listening and respecting them, were to blame.

And when the other person makes a joke that is basically agreeing with you? You huff and puff and say you “won’t” have the conversation if she insists on “dogging” men. Again: the problem isn’t women having opinions, it’s your failure to listen and respect them. If you insist on being flattered, you’re never going to get anywhere near the truth.

Signed,

Big Crazy Vagina-Haver

Dude defender says:
Thu, 5th Feb 20096:07 am 

Sady is a complete mess and does not speak for all women. Instead of CONSIDERING the fact that maybe some women actually ARE affected emotionally by their periods and perhaps do get irrational at sometimes she's going to lambaste the Dude for generalizing and then have the audacity to say that he's resoundingly and entirely wrong? You take open-minded women's arguments back decades with your firm stand of ill-conceived drivel.

And let me rant and rave about some OTHER article from the archives while I'm on my soap box! This poor guys is being asked his opinion on a matter he's BAITED into talking about. I bet if you asked him why all guys are assholes he'd give you some kind of response on that as well, but nobody asked him that. The guy is just doing his job and I know that I always try to convey to my boyfriend some kind of warning about my upcoming period and he is usually sensitive/appreciative of that so if I come home from work in a huff (or "crazy") he knows to treat me with a little extra TLC, or to avoid me all together. Is that so terrible and unbelievable?

We need less people like you on the ladies team- you're a bit crazy. . .

johnnie says:
Thu, 5th Feb 20096:29 am 

I want the Dude's opinion on why Sady is Crazy!

kel says:
Thu, 5th Feb 20097:10 am 

I have to say I don't understand why the column is called "He Said/She Said" when it really is just getting a dude's perspective. I agree that understanding a dude's point of view is valuable, but I don't like that its presented as two differing opinions, when really its just getting the guys side. I feel like it'd be better to name it "One Dude's Opinion" or something. Cause the only time "She" ever even disagreed with the "He" she apologized profusely and called herself crazy. Not really what I would categorize as a He said/She said debate. I Think Sady and the Dude would make great sparring partners for a real debate…

The Dude says:
Thu, 5th Feb 20091:24 pm 

Yes, it's me again – Thanks to everyone who's defended me or explained what I cannot properly say from my penis-having point of view.

I want to just clear up one thing that I think lies at the root of this issue, and it's totally my fault: When I give "my opinion" in this article, it is often a crude mix of what I personally believe along with a lot of what I imagine to be the "average" guy's beliefs, understandings, motivations, desires, whatever…

It's true, I do try to generalize – because, what's the point in hearing only what I think? Most of you will never meet me or deal with me in any significant capacity. So I try to generalize, in order to maybe help explain a broader sampling of the male population's viewpoint.

Because of this, I do say some sexist or stereotypical or ignorant things from time to time as an attempt to replicate the viewpoint that I am sure many of you run into with men regularly. (Not that I'm innocent in any way – just that a lot of what might be thought of as sexist or stereotyping is not the same opinion I would express in my personal life about that same matter.) And other times, I'll give my personal opinion, which is then confused because of this awkward jump in expressed perspective.

Obviously I need to do a better job of distinguishing between the two perspectives, which I will do from now on. Also, I'll make sure to ask more questions of the girl, to level-out the nature of the conversation.

Oh, and Jodi, guys cracking jokes about your boobs is just their very immature way of saying that they want you with a horny intensity that could take down a full-grown rhinoceros. Obnoxious, I know. But deep down, it's a compliment. Take it or leave it…or tell them to shut the f**K up.