He Said/She Said: The Abortion Issue

Lucy says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 200911:33 am 

Let the arguments on abortion begin…

I believe that the guy has the right to at least know about the abortion, however uncomfortable that may be but the decision should ultimately be up to the woman. That's my 2 cents. Although most guys I know are okay with abortion–that is probably because it doesn't affect them as much as the woman.

Erin says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20091:15 pm 

I agree with you Lucy, he has the right to know but I agree that ultimately it is up to the woman, My body My right. I don't care what anyone else says, but you have the right to your opinion which is why this is going to be such a big argument.

Emily says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20091:46 pm 

My boyfriend and I have had the abortion discussion. We are both against it for us, but don't want it to be illegal. It is sort of awkward to have it, but it really make things easier if a situation ever arises where we have a decision to make.

Mallory says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20093:26 pm 

I definitely agree with Erin. I wouldn't want anyone else telling me what I can or can't do with my body. I've always felt it's fine if you disagree with me on abortion, then just don't have one, but don't take away my right to have one if I was in that situation.

Kay says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20095:07 pm 

Hmmm… I definitely agree with Lucy about the relationship/abortion decision thing…

About whether it should be illegal or not, I feel like it really comes down to whether women should have the RIGHT to control what goes on with their bodies and the child they would have to carry to term. And that can be a really polarizing issue… haha obviously. Personally, I have a problem with people (mostly men) in Washington deciding what would be okay for me to do in a situation like that. I think that it should be a woman's right to choose, and that denying that right is stupid. Abortions will still happen whether it's illegal or not- at a detriment to the woman's health, most likely. Women should have direct control over their health decisions, in my opinion.

Beth says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20095:44 pm 

I personally wouldn't have an abortion- I don't think it's the right choice. After all, it is not the baby's fault it was conceived so murdering it is so unfair. I also can't help but think what if that baby was supposed to grow up and cure AIDS or solve the global warming crisis or something and now they'll never have that chance.

On the other hand- It's not my right to criticize or judge anyone else who decides otherwise

Jenny says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20097:15 pm 

I'm 100% with Lisa on this one. As a childfree woman, I would be devastated if I was forced to bear a child that I know I would end up resenting. Plus, I would resent the father for pushing the decision on me. I don't want my life to end up that way, and it's not fair for the father or the child to live that way, either. And in the reverse situation, it would be awful for a woman who was ready to become a mother be forced to terminate an unexpected yet wanted pregnancy against her will.

Women should always have the final say, as it is their bodies that are affected by a pregnancy or abortion. Men are welcome to express their opinions with their partners, but what is really needed from them is support for their partners with whatever decision they make.

Casey says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20099:07 pm 

I don't understand, "It's my body, so it's my decision"? What about the child's body? It's inside you, but it isn't YOUR body to decide what to do with. When a pregnant woman is murdered it is considered a double homicide. Why is a child in those situations considered a child and not the children in abortion cases? Because the one's of murdered women are WANTED?! If this is the case than it's absurd. But sadly I can not think of another argument for that one.

Also, if the man wishes for an abortion and you do not want one, then he should not have to pay child support or claim the child. He should have every right to make the decision, or compromise, as you, since it is HIS life which will be changed forever as well. You both made the decision to have sex, so you should both have equal say in the outcome. Of course if YOU want the abortion you could compromise and agree to give it up for adoption, or find a family for it (a la juno) That way his morals are appeased and your life is spared. (so you may have to loose a few pounds, and your boobs are a bit saggier, it's the price you pay for engaging in an act that PRODUCES LIFE. But that last one is entirely up to your morals, since even if it is made illegal you will still find a way to have it done, no matter whether you vainly die in the process (a la "pride" in the movie "Se7en".

If you want to do something as ignorant as have an unsafe procedure done to kill a human living inside you (I don't give 2 shits if you believe it's a human life, or not! It's been scientifically proven to be.) then you really deserve the fate that's awaiting you (Umm hello Darwin!)

But I don't think the man should have to support the final decision. That is in no way fair to men and as women we know exactly how it feels to have our rights restricted, do we really want to restrict other people's rights? (and if you say yes, then you're just vindictive, and in that case your opinion is already obsolete since you obviously have a mental issue)

Samantha says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20099:30 pm 

It's only a double homicide if the woman's in her 3rd trimester, past the point when an abortion would be done.

Although, I might agree with the second part. I'm tempted to say that if the father wants an abortion and you want to keep the baby, then I don't think he should have to pay child support, or be on the birth certificate. Because if the mother wanted an abortion, and the father didn't, the majority seems to be saying that she should be allowed to make the decision and live with it.

Beth-ASU says:
Wed, 3rd Jun 20099:43 pm 

I feel that, if a woman is able to carry her baby full term and put it up for adoption than that is better than aborting it. However, if carrying the baby and giving birth to it puts the mothers life at serious risk, abortion is probably the only option, especially very early on. It HASN'T been decided where the line between "clump of cells" and "life" is so abortion is always going to be a tricky subject.

I disagree with the "foreseeable future" argument, where people say the mother is depriving her child of a great and happy life. Many mothers abort their children because they dont have the means-financially, mentally, or otherwise- to care for the child. This may sound harsh but i would rather a child be aborted before it lives in the outside world, then to have it suffer because his mom felt OBLIGATED to keep him.

As far as the father's role, it takes two people to make a baby. Granted the mother is the one who should decide she wants to carry but if she does decide to have the child, it is the fathers responsibility to help care for that child. Immaculate conception only worked for Mary, otherwise, the father had to be present at some point to get the mom preggers. If he can make the decision to have sex (or unsafe sex) he needs to be prepared for the consequences that come with that decision.

so yeah, thats my bit.

Lauren - University says:
Thu, 4th Jun 20093:57 am 

This was by far the tamest and most impressive debate on this site in forever. It's refreshing to see people making intelligent points instead of just cutting people down

Ace says:
Thu, 4th Jun 20099:25 am 

I've always had the abortion discussion with my serious boyfriends. I know that kids for me are a no go and to bring one into this world would be irresponsible and ruin not just my life but the kids. I come down on the side of abortion and so have most of my boyfriends. That said, if someone told me to get an abortion, I would lose my shit.

Alexa says:
Thu, 4th Jun 20094:49 pm 

I think it is important to note that "pro-choice" does not equal "pro-abortion" since there are many people who would allow and support others having one but would not have one themselves.

That said, I believe that as much as you might not want to have this conversation with a partner, it is much better to discuss it before having sex (one reason I don't hook up). If birth control did fail, then you both want to be on the same page about what to do so that you and your partner don't rip each other's throats out because one of you wants to carry the baby to term and the other does not.

Oh yeah, and I'm glad no one has yet referred to a child as a "consequence" of sex. Yes, having sex can result in an infant, but you wouldn't say, "I'd like you to meet my consequence/accident, so-and-so." It just seems cold is all.

Also, I don't quite understand how "Se7en" applies here. Could someone elaborate please? Thank you.

Casey says:
Sun, 7th Jun 20099:38 pm 

Alexa, I brought up the movie "se7en" as a reference for what I was talking about. (It was the closest thing I could think of to provide a visual for what I was talking about, sorry if it didn't quite fit) But What I was referring to was the victim "pride" in the movie. Her beautiful face was mutilated and she was given the choice to call for help and be "ugly" for the rest of her life, or take pills and kill herself so she wouldn't have to live with the "shame" of being "ugly".

The connection (that I was trying to make) was that the argument "even if abortion is made illegal, women will endanger themselves to continue to have them" is sad, just like the fact that "pride" killed herself because she didn't want to be ugly, women will put themselves in danger simply because they don't want to carry a child to term? They can certainly put the child up for adoption, or leave it at a hospital or fire department if it is unwanted, but to risk death from improper procedures just because you WANT an abortion is ignorant, and just as vain as not wanting to live if you're "ugly".

I DO however agree with abortion if the mothers life is at risk (I wouldn't be here otherwise. My mothers mom had 7 girls, her fourth one would have killed her if she had not aborted her during the birth. And my mother, the fifth daughter, would never have been born. But in this case my grandfather got to make the decision, he could decide to keep his wife, or keep his fourth daughter. He decided "I have 3 daughter, I don't NEED another, but my current three NEED a mother") This is the ONLY case I agree with abortion. Otherwise, there is ALWAYS adoption, and yes, the child may not have a good life in foster care, or orphanages, etc, but I don't think there is EVER an excuse to kill a human being (besides the aforementioned) and I do consider that little clump of cells a human life. I can't wait for the day that it is proven, (or disproven) so we can end this debate once and for all.

Julia says:
Mon, 15th Jun 20097:57 am 

I would never be able to have an abortion.

I just don't think I could live with myself after it.

Women do have a right to decide what to do with their own bodies,

but people also have to remember that an abortion does not just effect the woman.

There is also a guy involved and the baby.

An abortion says that a woman's right to do what she wants is more important than a child's right to life.

There are other options, like adoptian.

I think in a serious situation I would turn to adoption if I had to.

Kenny says:
Tue, 16th Jun 200910:21 am 

I agree with pretty much everything that Casey said. But also, I think, it may be "Your body, your decision" But you didn't make that child by youself, the guy helped too and it's just as much his child as it is yours so the guy should definately have a voice and a say in the matter before the girl just goes and kills his kid.

Liam says:
Tue, 16th Jun 200910:34 am 

I'd be pretty PISSED if I was dating a chick and she went and killed my unborn son just cuz she felt it was HERS! I mean, it's my son too! And I may not have been ready financially or whatever to be a dad, but that doesn't mean that I'm not ready to step up and BE A MAN! I know when a lot of us dudes hear "I'm pregnant" We're pretty much ready to bounce. But girls need to stop being selfish and give some of us guys the benefit of the doubt!

Star says:
Tue, 16th Jun 20099:47 pm 

It might seem selfish Liam, but for a lot of girls it's a hard decision. I've read stories about women who have had to have abortions for a number of different health reasons and it's such a horrible situation to lose the child. Even if that's not the reason, many women don't go into it with a carefree attitude. Maybe they truly can't support a child. It might come down to having an abortion or raising a child in a home and poor life style where they will face more pain growing up. The sad fact of the matter is that most guys aren't ready to be a man. I'm glad you are, but we also have to think about what happens when the guy bails and we're stuck with a child. I don't think I could ever have an abortion, but I support the right to choose. I believe the father should always been informed though I think the decision should be the mother's.

Becca- Clarion Unive says:
Wed, 17th Jun 20093:00 pm 

I noticed casey that you brought up health concerns. but what about in the case of a rape?

don't you think that a woman who conceived a child during a rape deserves to choose?

tissue says:
Sat, 20th Jun 200911:03 am 

Also, I'm just thinking that if bearing a child in wedlock creates a social stigma within your community and family, ie, they will ostracize you and your family is ashamed of you.

Not all parents would be supportive of a daughter who engages in premarital sex and would literally cut her off.

At that point, I think abortion would be the logical conclusion especially if the woman does not have the financial means to support herself in college or whatnot.

I think then abortion can be argued.

Ultimately, I feel like it is the couple's decision on whether the woman get an abortion or not.

Pro-choice =/= Pro-abortion as reiterated earlier.

Amy says:
Sun, 21st Jun 20097:32 pm 

Kinda late to this debate, but wanted to add in a few things that hadn't been mentioned.

Adoption is always cited as an easy solution to an unwanted pregnancy. From what I understand, it is very difficult, both emotionally and legally, to put a baby up for adoption. Birth mothers are often as traumatised by giving up their children as women who choose abortion. Also, the paperwork is phenomenal. If the biological father is unwilling or unable to sign the papers, it becomes a legal nightmare to give the child up. Can you imagine trying to convince your rapist to sign the papers?

Someone said you could simply abandon the baby at a hospital/fire department. This is illegal and you would likely go to jail for it.

Dom says:
Mon, 22nd Jun 20094:22 am 

I know that I’m a week late here, but I have to say something.

Yes, abortion is something that destroys a fetus that in all likelyhood would have been a healthy child. And I assume it is very difficult to make that choice.

But I do know that I could never carry to full term and then just give up the newborn child that I saw on the ultrasounds and felt growing inside of me during the last months for the pregnancy.

I’m adopted, and it’s caused me so much pain with my family life, and I’ve always felt alienated from my adoptive siblings. Sometimes I feel hand-picked by my adoptive parents and that’s an amazing feeling to be wanted, but at the cost of knowing I was rejected (for whatever reason: I don’t know my birthmother) by my birthmother and father. I feel very bitter towards my birthmother. If her partner didn’t want to raise me with her, why couldn’t she have done it on her own? If she couldn’t afford me, aren’t there food stamps for the very basics or friends to borrow money from? If she was young or not ready or raped, why did she put herself through all of that emotional pain during the pregnancy just to hand me off?

I could never, ever put a child I bore through this. And I could never give a newborn up.

I’m not sure if I would abort if an unplanned pregnancy happened. But that baby would not be adopted out. I would raise my baby, or I would abort.

Please just consider this if you ever think that “adoption is better” just because it isn’t abortion. Is it really? Just because a baby is born instead of a fetus dying? Could you live with putting a child up for adoption for the rest of your life? Do you know what emotional baggage an adopted child could have?

I’m not saying adoption is bad. Or that women who aren’t ready shouldn’t do it. Or that I’ve had a horrible life because of it. Just know that it is NOT EASY, not the easy out, not the perfect solution. There is no simple answer to unplanned children. It’s a tough choice, and I wouldn’t say that any one of adopting, keeping, or aborting is any better than the others when it comes to an unplanned pregancy. But it’s nice to know that there ARE those three hard choices to make for women in a situation where they need to choose one of them.

I just want to state that I don’t intend this to be directed at anyone in particular. I just want everyone Pro-choice, pro-life, or where-ever you fall inbetween or around those, to think about it.

criolle johnny says:
Thu, 25th Jun 20096:52 pm 

ELEPHANT in the room! What if the guy wanted HIS child?

criolle

Arianna says:
Mon, 29th Jun 200911:03 am 

In some states it is NOT illegal to leave a newborn baby at a firehouse or police station. I know this to be true in Pennsylvania and New Jersey. I hear reports on the news all the time of babies being left at a firehouse, or police station.

It's not illegal because the states have recognized it is safer for a newborn to be left to the care of the state instead of being killed off, which is what some new mothers resort to.

I am well versed in this because I worked for a firehouse. I always wondered what I would do if this actually happened, but luckily it never has.

A mother can leave a newborn babe UNHARMED at any firehouse and police station without any questions and no charges of abandonment. The police will NOT investigate who left the child, and the child will be taken care of.

Like I said. This is an alternative for new mothers who see no other way out. And it is a much better solution then flushing the baby down the toilet.

Liam says:
Mon, 29th Jun 200912:55 pm 

Criolle Johnny, that's what I already said! According to females, guys have no say-so in the matters concerning HIS unborn kid

a gal says:
Mon, 29th Jun 20097:54 pm 

1) The best way to prevent abortions is to provide free, reliable birth control to everyone who wants it. And create a culture that supports people using it, every time.

2) Most women I know who had abortions considered the viewpoint of the father before making the decision. I think that the final decision should be the woman's. It's not fair, it's sad, i am sure it is infuriating for a man who deeply wants his child. And the woman is the one who must bear the physical and emotional effects and risks of pregnancy and birth, and until modern medicine can work around that, the choice to continue (or not) a pregnancy must lie in her hands.

3) What i think is often lost in the "but you could just put the baby up for adoption" argument is that pregnancy and birth are EXPENSIVE. not simply the medical costs (which are not generally paid for by adoptive parents unless you are a healthy white woman who is bearing a white baby), but the cost of food and supplements to have a healthy pregnancy, the cost of lost work for morning sickness, doctors appointments, labor, recovery, and that's just with a normal healthy pregnancy. a high-risk pregnancy could involve months of bed rest or worse. that doesn't even touch on the cost of losing a college scholarship, or dropping out of high school, or being disowned by a family who is angry that you are having sex.

Casey says:
Sat, 1st Aug 20093:54 pm 

Becca, as someone who has been raped, I would not have had an abortion had I gotten pregnant. The baby is not at fault in a rape, and therefore should not be punished. The victim is also not at fault, but the way I see it is if the mother is in no danger from the pregnancy it should not be aborted. That's just how I feel though.

eli says:
Sun, 2nd Aug 20094:47 pm 

The only solution in instances of unwanted pregnancy (or, hell, any pregnancy) is to respect the choice of the woman. No matter what that choice is – it's her body first and foremost. Fetus does not trump fully formed and functioning woman. Keep it, abort it, have it adopted – whatever.

People are so freaking judgmental about a choice that doesn't involve or affect them. It's disturbing.

Casey says:
Mon, 3rd Aug 20097:30 am 

Eli, it's because choices like these affect the world that people live in. We all have a right to fight to live in a world that we agree with. It's just a matter of who fights harder for what they want.

Blaire says:
Sun, 24th Jan 20106:08 pm 

While I firmly believe that abortion is wrong (to me it is killing an innocent human being) I recognize the necessity of it in some situations. Rape, danger to the mother, etc. are just a few. I think it will never be made illegal, but that's unimportant because the most important thing is to reduce the number of abortions. That means comprehensive sex-ed (whether the other pro-life people out there like it or not). Also, that means doing away with the "I can just have an abortion" mentality. That is not acceptable. If you are having sex, then you need to be willing to accept the consequences of your actions, that is your CHOICE–you CHOSE to have sex. However, I think the most important thing is reducing the number of abortions and keeping it legal for those times when it just is so extremely detremental to the mother to carry the baby to term (really young/old women, emotionally unstable women, etc.) when she would want to have an abortion, and that would be the best option. Otherwise, if a woman can, she ought to carry it to term–if she isn't ready to be a mother, that's what adoption is for.

brandi says:
Tue, 30th Mar 20108:08 pm 

If people feel this way then worry about the children who are already here, the starving, the poor, the abused, the uneducated.