Ness - Sheridan says:
Mon, 24th Aug 200911:15 am 

I might have to print out this list and keep it with me when I start hitting the club!

Fox says:
Mon, 24th Aug 200912:26 pm 

Oh come on, get real.

Checking out a girls ass as she walks away makes us a complete douche? Are you six? He's checking you out, he's probably attracted to you, this is a good thing. Do you really want a guy who denies his natural sexual impulses?

Hitting on you after getting rejected makes us an asshole? So if we get rejected we're supposed to sulk away and spend the rest of the night crying? No, we're perfectly allowed to move on to the next girl. I bet if the scenario was reversed you'd be talking about how, "He wasn't worth your time" and you should "Move straight on to the next boy". Double standards much?

And i've called girls sweetheart and baby before while I knew their names. It was not because I didn't know their names, it was a sign of affection and attraction, and they responded in kind.

And if he gets your name wrong, so what? He made a simple mistake, correct him and move on. It happens. Don't hit me with some, "Well he obviously knows a lot of girls if he got my name confused…" cause that means nothing.

A) Just cause he knows a lot of girls, does not make him an asshole. Not all players are douchebags, many are perfectly nice guys and you'd get to know that if you didn't stereotype them.

B) There's a lack of a causal relationship – he doesn't need to be a player to get a name wrong, it can be a very honest mistake.

Cut us some damn slack. I agree with some of these points, and as a guy I can see where you're coming from with those, but others are just ridiculous.

And I find it ironic that Number 10 is on this list considering this whole list is just generalizing men on the basis of a few behavioral traits.

You guys can do better than this.

Justin says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20091:30 pm 

are you really going to hold it against us for being human? while I agree with a lot of the points but come on 1 8 9 11 and 13 are just plain ridiculous.

A lot of us have no idea what we're doing and just trying things out. What may have worked for one girl, could have not worked for another. and a girl that doesn't like complements? come on, you sound like you're gods gift to men.

Also, you really going to ream us for oogling at other beautiful girls? we're guys and biologically programmed to check out potential mates. We can't exactly help what our body reacts to.

Erich says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20091:53 pm 

Justin– Just one thing you got wrong. If you oogle a girl while chatting up anopther are you not disrespecting the girl you happen to be chatting up?

Sean says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20092:49 pm 

What a 1000 pound load of flaming monkey shit. I would like to see a picture of the author who wrote this to see why they are so judgemental and bitchy at guys. They probably look like shit and weigh 300 pounds.

There is no manual for guys to follow on how to approach and talk to girls to have them respond positively. Like another commenter said, what works for one girl, might make another slap you in the face. It is so random and a crapshoot what a certain girl will actually like or even simply smile/laugh at.

If you don't like it, why don't you take your ugly, fat ass and approach a guy. All the pressure is on the guy when meeting girls. That is the problem. Guys turn into assholes because they are sick of girls turning them down. Assholes always get the girls. Girls are so dumb.

matt says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20094:50 pm 

"If you don’t like it, why don’t you take your ugly, fat ass and approach a guy. All the pressure is on the guy when meeting girls. That is the problem. Guys turn into assholes because they are sick of girls turning them down. Assholes always get the girls. Girls are so dumb."

Actually there is quite a bit of truth in that. Maybe not the most eloquent but I have to agree.

Girls like to have a mental checklist of things they can shoot guys down for in a heartbeat. He forgot my name, his shoes are icky, he dresses funny, blah blah blah. So shallow. Its not always easy approaching the opposite sex ladies-you'd know that if you tried it sometime. Maybe then you'd drop your little attitudes.

Thankfully I have discovered the world is a big place and the world is full of women from other countries that are not like this so I no longer have to put up with retarded American women and their fucking shitty outlook and attitudes.

Hailey says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20095:27 pm 

a lot of guys that have been shot down a lot of times

Hailey says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20095:31 pm 

"Thankfully I have discovered the world is a big place and the world is full of women from other countries that are not like this so I no longer have to put up with retarded American women and their fucking shitty outlook and attitudes."

I would like to add that this article only singles out douchebags like yourself, whereas you are singling out an entire nation for a couple of bad experiences. Get over yourself.

Kristina says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20098:08 pm 

“I would like to see a picture of the author who wrote this to see why they are so judgemental and bitchy at guys. They probably look like shit and weigh 300 pounds.”

“Guys turn into assholes because they are sick of girls turning them down.”

Wow, excellent job of being the exact guy this article was written about! A+.

Donnette - Manhattan says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20097:16 pm 

Actually I weigh 125 and I'm pretty good looking.

I'm pretty glad guys care to read this but maybe I should clear my pts.

1. don't walk up to two girls, hit on one, get rejected and turn to the other

2. don't objectify a woman– attraction and appreciation is completely different from objectification

3. not everyone likes being called baby, sweetheart, darling within the first ten seconds after an introduction

p.s. Sean get a grip. I'm not judgmental or bitchy but you are in that comment

Matt says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20098:35 pm 

Thanks for proving my point Hailey. Girls like yourself truly do believe the world revolves around you and how dare a guy not put up with your shit and find something better. The nerve!!!!

Guys go abroad. You won't regret it.

Mike says:
Mon, 24th Aug 20098:42 pm 

I have to agree with American girls being much more superficial and bitchy compared to girls from other countries who are much more approachable and down to earth. If you travel to different countries in Europe, the change is incredible. American girls are so damn stuckup and full of themselves, it is amazing. There are nice, down to earth, beautiful girls in other countries that are much better to date.

Don't give me this shit about "you had one or two bad experiences and are insulting all American women." That is not true. In fact, the most physically beautiful girl I ever went out with was also the most down to earth, nice, and had no ego despite how beautiful she was.

Almost without fail, the girls who are the most stuckup, bitchy, and judgemental are the girls who are ugly, fat, and the least desirable by guys. They have a permenant bitch shield up and it makes no sense. Chill the fuck out your ugly beasts. You should be happy any guy at all approached you.

Is there any wonder why there are so many middle aged divorced moms out there? With stupidity like this article it is no wonder so many girls think so dumb. Karma is a bitch. When you hit middle age with wrinkles, saggy skin, and 50 extra pounds, you will be wishing that a guy, any guy at all would approach you. Maybe then you will realize how fuckin dumb you were when you thought you were so hot when you were young.

Justin says:
Mon, 24th Aug 200911:24 pm 

that's a tad bit harsh mike. There are what 304 million people living in america? And you're apart of a small sample size of the population of a certain city in a certain state with a particular culture and you're generalizing all the women in america? I don't know where you're meeting your girls but most of the girls I meet are very nice, smart, down to earth and very cute/beautiful.

When it comes down to it, us guys have all the pressure to approaching women and most of the time, its fucking scary because you're essentially putting your ego on the line to get rejected. Sometimes I'm a nervous wreck and just say whatever I'm thinking about and come off as a creep and sometimes I can be the most confident person in the room and be chatting everyone up in the room. You gotta give us a break sometimes, we aren't always what we are in clubs/bars :/

bradwellen says:
Tue, 25th Aug 20094:25 am 

I'm not one to judge a book by it's cover, but after reading this list, I am led to believe that women who follow all of these rules are batshit f*cking crazy and will probably have a hard time finding "the man of their dreams" until they loosen up a bit. I have a friend who is locked down by a girl like this and she gives him the breathing room of a coffin. For any guys who are being victimized by the overbearing broad or have a friend who has his gonads firmly secured by a ball and chain, find some relief at precioustimeny.com/blog/?p=3946

Jenny says:
Tue, 25th Aug 20095:44 am 

Man, the boys that have commented here are really, really defensive. :/

These rules seem a lot more like guidelines to me. Generally, I'm pretty laid back, and some of the things on this list will slide with me, if the guy can be cool about it. I love compliments, and I'm always happy to receive one, I'll forgive a guy if he forgets my name, and I'll laugh when he calls himself The Package (as long as he stops eventually). But things like #2 and #10 are absolutely unacceptable. I don't insult people, and I would appreciate that respect in return. Plus, I don't date misogynists.

Katie says:
Tue, 25th Aug 20093:24 pm 

Love this story!! There are a ton of these douche bag stories on http://www.kissanddish.com.

Like don't date guys who you can see with a condom line in their pocket.

Star says:
Wed, 26th Aug 20096:20 am 

I don't know what everyone's problem is. Why in the hell would I want to talk to a guy who constantly refers to me as "Babe" before he gets to know me, or hits on my best friend right in front of me and then turns his attention to me? No thanks. All a guy has to do is show that he can have some respect and isn't thinking completely about jumping in the sack.

And how would these rules make a girl overbearing? If I'm an overbearing bitch because I don't want a guy who calls himself Pimp Daddy and insults me about my looks than I'll stay an overbearing bitch.

Star says:
Wed, 26th Aug 20096:22 am 

Also, Mike is obviously on this list. He thinks that because he judges a girl as "ugly" she should grovel at his feet for talking to her. If she was so ugly, why were you talking to her in the first place? Sounds like you need to grow up and stop taking rejection like a whiny little kid.

Star says:
Wed, 26th Aug 20096:27 am 

"If you don’t like it, why don’t you take your ugly, fat ass and approach a guy. All the pressure is on the guy when meeting girls. That is the problem. Guys turn into assholes because they are sick of girls turning them down. Assholes always get the girls. Girls are so dumb."

Yes, because your comments just reek intelligence. I know this will be hard for your small brain to understand, but girls don't like guys who think they have an "ugly, fat ass." I know! Shocking, isn't it? I leave you alone for a few minutes while your brain processes this information.

Fox says:
Wed, 26th Aug 20097:59 am 

Be fair, Star. Don't throw all of our complaints out of the window 'cause one guy got a bit mouthy. And most of us said that there are a few points on this list that we agree with – but there are others that are just ridiculous.

I don't understand why you'd have a problem with someone getting rejected by your best friend then hitting on you. What's so terrible about that? One girl turned him down, so he moved to the next one. What do you expect?

And anyone who calls himself Pimp Daddy or any such name has to be doing it for the pure ironic humour, so just laugh it off and take it as a joke instead of getting all uppity. And whats your problem with the word babe or other such phrases? Like i've said, they're signs of affection/attraction – what's so terrible about that?

Star says:
Wed, 26th Aug 20098:10 am 

I like the word babe if it's within a relationship, but if I've just met the guy then that sends a signal to me that he doesn't care enough to learn my real name.

What bugs me about guys hitting on me after hitting on my friend is when we're both standing together and I watch him practically throwing himself all over her then moving on to me. It feels like he's slept with every girl in the bar. I guess it really depends on the level of flirting. Also it can feel a bit like a put-down if he decides to flirt with you only after your best friend rejects him.

But you're right, and not all guys are jerks just because of some of the things on this list. I suppose it all depends on context.

Though mostly I believe this article is meant to be humorous, and I've seen plenty of lists about women that use generalized assumptions for a laugh.

GL says:
Wed, 26th Aug 20098:22 am 

I like the girl in the picture between these douches.

Star says:
Wed, 26th Aug 20099:14 am 

Lol! Wow, I hadn't noticed her there.

Casey says:
Wed, 26th Aug 200910:03 am 

Fox, the problem with it is that if you approach another girl first (and we see it, which is likely if you're approaching our friend that we are standing with) and then get shot down by them and immediately turn to us, you're basically saying, "you're not my first choice, but since my first choice turned me down, I'll take you" It's a blatant insult. Trust me, we understand that when you're on the prowl if you get shot down you're going to try again with someone else, but just don't try for the first girls best friend who just witnessed the whole rejection cause then it makes us feel second rate, and you're never going to get a girl that way.

And I agree with Star, I don't want a guy to call me "babe" or any other affectionate name when I'm not in a relationship with them, It's like you're saying "You're nothing but another piece of ass to me, I don't have to learn your name cause you're just like all the rest, just another faceless, mindless, skank." Calling every girl you meet, or have an attraction to, the same couple of names means that you don't care enough about us to use our name to distinguish us from the rest of the girls in the bar/club/venue. It's endearing when you're in a relationship, but outside of a relationship it's an insult. We get that you think we're hot, but we're not going to be won over by a guy who simply thinks were hot, you have to show us that you have an interest in us as a person, not us as a vagina.

And calling yourself a name like "Pimp daddy" it's not funny, to us, maybe to you guys, but not to us. It just shows us that you think way too highly of yourself and your sexual skills, and are quite probably a player. And girls don't want a player, or a cocky asshole.

If you want to get a girl, just listen to us, this list may come off as bitchy to you guys, but it's a direct insight into our minds, USE IT! you'll beat out all the other guys at the clubs. Guys and girls have different way of communicating, we're giving you a window here!

Angel says:
Wed, 26th Aug 200912:16 pm 

This is interesting. While I agree that no girl should settle for the creeper/loser, and some of the points on the list are valid, others are ridiculous.

What's wrong with drinking white wine at a club? Some people don't like beer, including me. Following are the points I don't agree with, and people shouldn't follow, IMO:

4. Licks his lips while listening to the words you’re saying.

–>While it can set apart the "just-wanna-get-laid" types, sometimes, it's just a habit!

9. Looks at anything other than your eyes, face, back of your head as you walk away.

–> If a guy's interested (approaches you) in you in the first place, he likes your body. The personality comes after you start talking. While no one likes to be ogled at continuously, a little wandering eye is natural (and flattering for some girls I know).

13. Calls you by the wrong name. Even if he just met you, he should get your name right. Note: if he calls you “baby,” “sweetheart,” or any other term of affection, it doesn’t mean he likes you. It means he can’t remember your name.

–> I feel the need to defend this one because I've forgotten guys names before. Though I would never call them something as cheesy as "baby", I generally just avoid saying their name until someone else says it, so I know for sure.

14. He’s drinking a glass of white wine. At the club.

–> Like I said, not everyone likes beer or vodka. A friend of mine hates the fruity drinks. You can't really call someone a creeper just because they drink a certain drink.

Hannah says:
Thu, 27th Aug 200912:57 pm 

I agree with some of these but others are ridicous.

Like 4,9,14

number 13 goes both ways if you forget the girl or guys name just avoid their name or ask them for their name again noone should have a problem with someone asking their name again.

number one goes both ways it bothers me when you watch a guy hit on ur friend and then he goes to you.I'm usualy thinking at that moment wow player,wow this guy is a douche, or hes just looking for action.But I don't expect you to cry in the corner or something just dont go from hitting on one girl to another take it slow.

number 3 goes both ways like some guys are nervous so they say idiot stuff it matters the tone they say it in like theres the joking tone and the im soo freakin hot and im the shit tone

suqnswallow says:
Fri, 28th Aug 20098:24 am 

The defensiveness of the guys on this issue proves that the article is spot-on. To quote a famous English playwright, "Methinks the whore protesteth too loudly."

suqnswallow says:
Fri, 28th Aug 20098:27 am 

I just love the picture of the two guys in the picture. One more shot and they will be in their dorm room arguing over who's going to be on bottom tonight.

Sarah says:
Fri, 28th Aug 20098:27 am 

While I completely agree that most of the guys who have posted on here have been completely rude and insulting–by generalizing an entire group of girls (while they criticize the author of this article for the same thing)…

I think they should stop looking for girls up North and in Cali. Come to the south. The girls are awesome here.

Sam says:
Fri, 28th Aug 20099:24 pm 

You girls are so funny. You can bitch and moan and say you are right all you want. The bottom line is that guys have a much longer window to be able to date young girls than older women have of dating desirable men. All of you are easily replaceable. As you are getting older and less desirable by the second, younger, hotter girls are never going to stop leaping to the top of every guys dating pool. Meanwhile all of you old fogeys are going to end up alone and bitter because you were too much of a bitch when you were young and actually might be attractive to guys. Stop being bitches before it is too late.

jenna says:
Sat, 29th Aug 20095:48 am 

it's funny because the comments that guys are making on this website are exactly the kind of things that Europeans would expect from American guys.. So stop complaining about American women and take a look at yourselves.

Monica says:
Sat, 29th Aug 20094:26 pm 

Guys are biologically predisposed to go after women, and women are biologically predisposed to be selective. That doesn't make all guys douche bags or all women bitches (although some guys and women definitely fit the bill).

I think that men and women should stop acting like they're different species, treat each other like people, and cut each other some slack.

Ryan says:
Sun, 30th Aug 200912:21 pm 

Who cares if a woman rejects you 30 seconds after meeting you, don't take it personally. She has no idea who you are after 30 seconds so she's not rejecting you, she doesn't even know you. Not to mention the primacy effect (first impression) is a bitch, so if it doesn't go well move on, you won’t have the time required to change her initial opinion of you before last call anyway. As for Donnette’s points, this stuff is straight out of a Cosmo magazine. You know a magazine written by woman, influenced by fashions and attitudes created by woman and homosexual males, who give advice to woman about straight men.

As for American woman and their attitudes, all I have to say is this: why do US citizens, not the rest of North Americans (Canadians) wear their shoes inside their house? Because actors on television and cinema wear shoes on set, sets depicting their homes. So Americans do it because they believe it’s the norm, as a Canadian this is laughable. Media, aka music, television, and cinema have far too much influence over Americans, and it shows in their attitudes, personalities, and behaviours. It's make-believe people. Many Americans are as shallow as the products and personalities bombarded upon them relentlessly by the media.

Davis says:
Sun, 30th Aug 20091:49 pm 

Did anybody else notice the chick in the background of the main picture? Between the two douches? Her facial expression is HILARIOUS.

Cobb California says:
Sun, 30th Aug 200910:17 pm 

Can we say douche bag?

http://lakecountytravelguide.com/cityinfo-city_na…

Donnette - Manhattan says:
Mon, 31st Aug 20098:00 pm 

So this is a "HaHa" article. This piece is commenting on most of the things guys do upon meeting a girl that turns them off (and yes, I actually asked girls).

I have actually found these comments interesting and I'm glad this is worth commenting.

Ryan- I don't consider myself "influenced by fashions and attitudes created by woman and homosexual males". I will admit that I keep up with fashion but I have my own style. And while I do agree that the American media shapes a lot of things I also believe everyone is their own person. And who says I'm American?

I also don't wear shoes in my house and this article isn't autobiographical.

Shoke says:
Mon, 31st Aug 20098:16 pm 

I agree with some comments above…

This is how I see things….women are like cars, great when they are fresh and young, but their value depreciates rapidly as they age…men on the other hand, we are like art or fine wine, we just get better and more desirable as we get older….just remember this, all you girls out there in the clubs who think you're hot shit and think you're doing us a favor by talking to us when we hit on you….peace

Tim says:
Tue, 1st Sep 20091:44 am 

I only drink wine!

I guess I'm a Nazi

jenna says:
Tue, 1st Sep 200912:57 pm 

shoke, sensible girls find it creepy when old farts hit on them. we know that if they were worth something they'd be married by now. your argument doesn't even work, because people marry for love so the only people who have to worry about your point of view are those who only have outer beauty. Speak for yourself.

valkyrie9 says:
Tue, 1st Sep 20096:01 pm 

From several assholes above:

"American girls are so picky! Why would I want them when I can have girls from other countries where they have less standards?"

Thanks for alerting me to the fact that you are an imperialistic, racist douchebag who's so blinded by entitlement you don't even realize how hateful these statements sound. Trust me, if a non-American woman read that, her reaction would not be "Yeah, we're so much better!" it would be "Who are you calling 'easy'?"

Such comments do not make you sound like "catches" and they further prove the author's point.

I've found that usually when it looks like the problem is everyone else, chances are the problem is actually you. All the women in one of the world's most diverse and most populous countries won't date you? Perhaps there's a reason. Take a look in the mirror and you might figure it out.

Maddie says:
Tue, 1st Sep 20098:07 pm 

lol @ number 13. that's the same exact quote from john tucker must die! hahaha

ben says:
Wed, 2nd Sep 20097:54 pm 

"I’ve found that usually when it looks like the problem is everyone else, chances are the problem is actually you. All the women in one of the world’s most diverse and most populous countries won’t date you? Perhaps there’s a reason. Take a look in the mirror and you might figure it out."

Valkyrie9: No fucking shit asshole. I can't help that I am uglier than a fucking steaming pile of dogshit. You don't think that I haven't been fucking hating my parents for not aborting my birth my whole life? It fucking sucks knowing that you will be alone your whole fucking life because you look like shit. Thank you for your words of encouragement to tell me something that I already know. That is why I never look at myself in a mirror, it is too depressing. Or why I leave all the lights off in my house. I don't want to see a monster.

Swainson says:
Thu, 3rd Sep 20094:04 pm 

"No fucking shit asshole. I can’t help that I am uglier than a fucking steaming pile of dogshit. You don’t think that I haven’t been fucking hating my parents for not aborting my birth my whole life? It fucking sucks knowing that you will be alone your whole fucking life because you look like shit. Thank you for your words of encouragement to tell me something that I already know. That is why I never look at myself in a mirror, it is too depressing. Or why I leave all the lights off in my house. I don’t want to see a monster."

wow O_O' Never in all my life have I read something that said low confidence as much as this. Dude…looks are like talent. Success is only 10% of it and 90% hard work. Its the same with dating. Be presentable and real, respect yourself and love yourself because even if you do get poontang your still left with you. Why hate you? Thats why the ladies don't like the douche. The douche says I'm not good enough so I have to act in a particular way just to get some pussay. The really smart ladies (which hopefully is the majority) see right through this to the part "I'm not good enough". This article is a list of all the attributes from a douche which scream "I suck" and blatantly obvious by the comments by the majority of men (shakes head in shame). And if you really are so ugly as to attract no females. Get somewhere in life and at least show you have balls to be something rather than act.

valkyrie9 says:
Sat, 5th Sep 20098:56 pm 

"Valkyrie9: No fucking shit asshole. I can’t help that I am uglier than a fucking steaming pile of dogshit. You don’t think that I haven’t been fucking hating my parents for not aborting my birth my whole life? It fucking sucks knowing that you will be alone your whole fucking life because you look like shit. Thank you for your words of encouragement to tell me something that I already know. That is why I never look at myself in a mirror, it is too depressing. Or why I leave all the lights off in my house. I don’t want to see a monster."

I wasn't referring to looks, I was referring to the attitude you and some of the other guys here have with regard to women, but I guess I should have expected from your earlier comments that you wouldn't be able to wrap your head around the idea of "look in the mirror" as a metaphor rather than a literal statement.

Tanner says:
Sun, 6th Sep 20099:40 am 

It's kind of funny to see that some of the comments singled out American women as the bitches of the world. I have no problems with some of the things in the article. If I feel something genuine, and a guy has a slip up, then I'll go with it. I can understand all the pressure (in theory since I don't actually have a penis, but whatever.) However, not all American women are bitches, and not all men are douche bags. There are bitches and douches in EVERY culture. Variety is what makes the world go 'round. Don't try to generalize gender just through a few episodes, and that applies to both sexes. Assumptions make asses out of everyone, and that's part of the reason relations between the sexes such a whore's ass. Happy Hunting.

so been there says:
Sun, 6th Sep 20092:47 pm 

sounds like my ex a self centered, abusive, control freak jerk.

Ken Kendall says:
Sat, 12th Sep 20099:38 am 

I just added a new post today on my blog http://whatsheneedsfromyou.wordpress.com about the difference between men and guys.

Check it out. I think you will appreciate it.

Dan says:
Tue, 15th Sep 20094:47 pm 

Yawn! I knew as soon as I read this 'article' there'd be a shit storm after it. Thats because its so obviouisly wrong.

A lot of what you say makes sense but it soesn't really work like you want it to in real life.

Asshole guys get more girls than nice guys because they do most of the things on your list and then girls mistake this for alpha male behaviour. This triggers a biological chemistry – which is what girls live for.

Nice guys do not come accross as alpha males and are left on the heap. If you used that list to filter your guys you'd end up with a great husband/pet whom you have little respect for and end up cheating on with me – because I'm an asshole and you like it =D)

I didn't read all the comments but some guy was whining on about european girls being more down to earth and easier to get on with, as well as being more attractive.

Well, he's right. But I prefer the challenge of picking up an American girl precisely because of their attitude! So all you 'Prada' guys, by all means go meet somone nice and genuine elsewhere. That way these 'stuck up', 'bitchy' girls will have no one left to choose from but Frada guys like me who are in it for the sport =D)

Dan says:
Tue, 15th Sep 20094:56 pm 

I just remembered, this is an American audience so I'd better explain:

I'm British – we use sarcasm a lot. If you read my post and find yourself agreeing with some parts and getting angry at others – its because you didn't take that into account.

The message is the same throughout, I just change styles halfway through without letting you know.

I'll let you decide where the sarcasm is =D)

Bye!

Anonymous says:
Thu, 26th Nov 200910:04 pm 

Я так понимаю, в последнем абзаце как раз таки вся соль и изложена