Then you say that banning abortion forces women to seek an abortion in unsafe circumstances, (non-doctors performing the procedures, unsanitary conditions, people with ill-intentions) and thusly puts the woman’s life in just as much risk as the fetus. So therefore, you think we should keep abortion legal so we can regulate it and so many women won’t die, since that is apparently counter-intuitive to the “pro-life” agenda. However, the woman has a choice to have a knowingly unsafe procedure performed on her or not, the fetus has no choice what-so-ever in either situation. If a woman is willing to have a life-threatening operation performed on her, when she has other, safer options, then that is ignorant on the woman’s part, and if there’s one thing I can’t stand, it’s ignorance, so honestly, I feel no sympathy for them.

I said “I wish pro-choice people would stop and think about this rationally” because the commenter I was responding too said the same thing about pro-lifers, but didn’t have much of an argument to back it up, it was a jab at her, not really all pro-choicers. And prisoners still get amenities, no matter how good they might be, we are still paying for whatever it is they get. Also, if you’re going to make this statement, can you please elaborate on it, “and the death penalty isn’t as effective as people like to think it is”, because I’d like to know what isn’t effective about doing away with a piece of scum who I’m paying to keep alive, and with more luxury than some people I know have (3 meals a day is a luxury considering a lot of people in this country can’t afford to feed themselves and their families).

I knew a girl in high school who had an abortion, I remember the day she made her appointment, she came up to me and said “I’m getting this shit removed on March 8th! So Stoked!” I know this girl doesn’t represent ALL women who get abortions, but I’d be willing to wager that she represents a majority of them. Having a baby does seriously derail your life, but if you’re not ready to have a baby then you really shouldn’t be engaging in an act that results in one, and if you are engaging in it, you need to take the precautions not to get pregnant. If you can’t have sex responsibly, then you REALLY shouldn’t be having it (and drunken casual sex that many college students engage in is pretty risky considering your judgment is effected by the alcohol).

I agree we do need to focus on sex education so fewer people will be having unwanted pregnancies, but I’m really not sure how much good it will do. I know so many people who had the same sex ed classes as me who could care less about having safe sex, sadly a lot of them say, “eh, whatever, I’ll just get an abortion”. I went through 4 years of high school with people with this mentality; can you maybe see now why I’m pro-life? If there are that many people in a concentrated area who think that way, how many more of them are there spread out all over the country? I have actually yet to meet a pro-abortion person who thinks rationally about them (I have met plenty of pro-choice people who say they will never have an abortion who think rationally about it, that’s why I say “pro-abortion”). What good does sex education do when abortion is still an option for those people who evidently don’t value life? Obviously they don’t value life enough to save their own from a botched illegal procedure (seriously, if someone would rather chance death than have a baby they helped to produce, then there’s something wrong), and they don’t value it enough to save that of their child.

I dunno, if the baby’s going to die either way, and population is such a BIG concern, then the best way to go is ban abortions, then we loose two lives instead of just one, and the mother can experience what she’s putting her child through.

And I really don’t get what you’re talking about in reference to the religion part. As a Christian, I believe the souls of children born or unborn go directly to heaven. Children are considered innocent and therefore don’t have to go through the judgment process. What do you mean, “leave the fate of their souls up to us?” The fate of the soul of an aborted child isn’t and never was the issue pro-lifers have with abortion, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about. “[Our] dead babies” (which actually aren’t OUR dead babies, considering pro-lifers don’t believe in abortion, they’re actually YOUR dead babies) are in good hands, like I said, I have no idea what you’re rambling on about heaven and babies souls for.

Every living thing matters to me, whether it’s been born yet or not, because it’s not right to kill an innocent human being.

If you’re so worried about the population, and people trying to have a better life, how about we “do away with” the murderers, and rapists who sit in prison using up our tax money, who live for free on 3 meals a day with cable television, either until they die, or until they make parole and can continue to make life bad for people. Why not “do away with” the people who actually are making life bad for people, the ones who are a drain on society, not the innocent babies who haven’t yet been given a chance, who could possibly make life better for someone some day, who we could put that tax money to better use on to help the parents who can’t afford them. I would much rather my tax money go to helping a baby have a chance at life, then to help some scum bag live a secure life.

I wish pro-choice people would stop and think about this rationally.

Lastly, to get back to the original issue – I don’t think people are arguing that the “‘Pro-life’ Cupcake” people don’t have a right to do this (although, if the plan to “give them out at school” interrupts time that should be spent learning, I think the parents should have a right to take that up with the school, especially if the teacher doesn’t also take time to explain the other side of the debate. Kids giving them out to their classmates outside of classes, though, like at recess or at lunch, should be allowed to do so.) It’s the tactics that are a bit uncomfortable – luring people with a yummy treat and then announcing that the cupcake was just a big trap to get you to listen to their message (which you may not want to hear/discuss) as they suddenly jump on their soapbox. There’s a big difference between that and, say, giving out cupcakes like this at the Students for Life booth at a student club fair: in that case, people know what they’re in for, because they see the political pamphlets on the table next to them. If they’re pro-choice or undecided or just don’t want to talk about it at that moment, they’re given the agency to decide whether their desire for a delicious treat trumps their lack of desire to discuss this issue with the Students for Life people. Whereas, with the Cupcake Day, they have no idea that they’re walking into a political discussion they may not want to be a part of (at the moment, or ever), and so it’s incredibly dishonest. Not to mention that the way that they write about their desired reaction after making the “It’s no one’s birthday” comment – “The cake in their mouth will become dry and the moment will hopefully become quite somber” – makes it sound like they get off on making people feel uncomfortable and awkward.

But, of course, that’s not really what the whole abortion is about anyway. Or, rather, it’s not the fetus’s life that’s really at the heart of understanding the issue, but rather, the woman’s.

The problem with arguing “omg abortion is bad so we should ban it!” is it’s ignoring the fact that banning abortion has never actually done anything to reduce the abortion rate. In fact, the abortion rate in the U.S. has actually gone DOWN since Roe v. Wade. The region of the world with the highest abortion rates is Latin America, where it’s completely illegal or severely restricted in every country save one (Cuba). Making abortion illegal doesn’t stop it, nor does it even discourage it. However – as with drugs, and guns – making it illegal does make it harder to control, and harder to regulate, which is harmful to women because “harder to regulate” means there’s no way we can guarantee that the people performing abortions are trained doctors. In fact, making it illegal pushes the *actual* trained doctors out of the profession, for fear of losing their medical licenses, so that shifts the balance of “abortion providers” disturbingly in the direction of people with ill intentions (or just a lack of medical expertise) in areas where abortion is restricted.

So you have to realize that the death of fetuses is something we can’t do much about (or, well, we can but banning abortion doesn’t do much to affect it – more on that later), and therefore, the life at stake here is the woman’s, not the fetus’s. I urge you to look up stories of women who sought out abortions in the years before Roe, and then see if overturning it is really the “pro-life” thing to do.

Lastly – on Islam – Casey, I would really advise you to do some actual research on Islam (even Wikipedia is better than wherever you’re getting your info) or, better yet, get to know some real-life Muslims. I grew up in the Detroit area, which has one of the largest Muslim populations in the US, and the “72 Virgins” thing is not something most Muslims believe in. Islam is actually a very tolerant religion, or at least, no less so than mainstream Christianity. And two of the main ideals of the religion are peace and charity. Your average Muslim, especially in America, wants about as much to do with Al Qaeda and other “Islamist” terrorists as your average Christian wants to do with the people who bomb abortion clinics or commit anti-gay hate crimes “in the name of Jesus” – that is, they want absolutely nothing to do with them.

Since Islam considers the diversity of people and nature as God’s creation, respect for diversity is commanded. Especially noted in the Quran are “People of the Book”, namely Jews and Christians, who were always given a special place in Muslim society. Muslims are commanded to safeguard their right to worship and their places of worship, a command that has been historically followed, as is evidenced by the existence of old churches and synagogues throughout the Muslim world in places like Turkey, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, and Bosnia. Contrary to the common stereotype, Islam was not “spread by the sword”, nor people forced to convert, a fact again born out by the existence of non-Muslim populations throughout the Muslim world. This same respect and tolerance was extended to people of other faiths.

Are Martyrs guaranteed 70 virgins in Heaven?

This is not an authenticate Prophetic Tradition (Hadith). However, in Islam martyrs are promised a great reward from God, just as war heroes are honored in many societies. However, a Muslim who dies commandeering a plane-load of civilians into a building full of civilians, or blowing up innocent people on trains or buses, jeopardizing the safety and security of Muslims throughout the world, and opening the way for antagonistic forces to slander, denigrate, and vilify Islam cannot be considered a martyr. Terrorists are mass murderers, not martyrs.
-Islamic Networks Group, http://www.ing.org/media_releases/default.asp?num=17

What was the point of your comment, Casey? Why would you ever say that about Muslims if it’s based on “what you’ve heard?”
“Basically, you just have to study them, and figure out which one you believe in, if any at all.” Yeah, you should try that yourself. I’m pretty sure if what you “heard” was true, it would mostly likely “rule out that religion” for everyone else too, and Islam wouldn’t be the second most-practiced in the world. Perfect example of why Americans are seen as ignorant and self-absorbed to the rest of the world….

And the whole Golden Compass thing — the quote that sums up the whole series for me is:
“I remember. He meant the Kingdom was over, the Kingdom of Heaven, it was all finished. We shouldn’t live as if it mattered more than this life in this world, because where we are is always the most important place. He said we had to build something…That’s why we needed our full life, Pan… we wouldn’t have been able to build it. No one could if they put themselves first. We have to be all those difficult things like cheerful and kind and curious and patient, and we’ve got to study and think and work hard, all of us, in all our different worlds, and then we’ll build…”
“And then what?” said her Dæmon sleepily “build what?”
“The Republic of Heaven.”
Lyra to Pan in Ch. 38
He is not killing god or religion for children who can’t decide for themselves – the children who are able to read these books and actually make it through the 3rd are most likely really intelligent and thoughtful for their age anyways, but that’s not the point – he is making the reader simply QUESTION, not reject, organized religion and how we humans describe God as a king, with no actual proof of him existing, and use God/Allah/Yahweh as an excuse for wars, for honor killings, for terrorism, for the burning of “witches,” for not funding sex ed in schools, etc. I think it starts an argument, which older children/pre-teens should be exposed to so they can decide for themselves, that maybe you don’t HAVE to be part of a church or synagogue or anything to be spiritual, to be moral, or have faith, and that you won’t burn in hell or anything for questioning it.