quinn says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 201010:47 am 

you aren't the only one that feels this way. my best friend and i talk about it all the time.

i had just broken up with a long term boyfriend and all i wanted was some casual hang out time, maybe some fooling around with different people, and what did i get? 1, 2, 3 guys in a row who wanted to hold hands and call me every day. one of them left a voicemail drunkenly singing boys2men. which isn't cute.

COMPLETE double standard.

S says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 201011:07 am 

that doesn't seem like excessive calling maybe a bit too much but still not a deal breaker… sounds like you're not that into him yourself.

Nick says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20101:18 pm 

Okay let me try to get my chronology straight. Is this correct?

1. Boy that you're interested in receives your number

2. (3 days later) he calls. You ignore it.

3. (2 days later) he calls again, twice, spaced fairly close together.

Now unless he continued to call repeatedly after this (which I assume you would have included in the article) I wouldn't file this anywhere close to "stalker" but maybe closer to "guy trying to phone someone who he has no reason to suspect is unavailable by phone"

anyway… – you roll your eyes over the three days thing but it's exactly because of the amount of thought given to guys' calling habits by girls like you that the three day "rule" was born.

and why, exactly, didn't you call him? There is no such thing as "work got crazy," a call doesn't take all day and labor laws have your back on break time.

And you go on about double standards. "Why does it seem like guys get handed all the control in [my relationships]" Taking a little control for yourself might help (start with calling). I'm not saying it's easy but you can't expect guys to do it all then complain about how they don't do it all exactly how you like it.

Any decent guy is not going to be spooked by a girl with initiative (and most of us are turned on). He will be spooked by a girl that is controlling and manipulative. And he will become withdrawn if all of his attempts at initiative are perceived as "creepy". "Creepy" is defined by fear – are you afraid of him? really? the majority of people in this world are not to be feared. It's more like "I'm afraid of how he isn't exactly like me and my friends".

dannidupa says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20101:33 pm 

I am so relieved to see that I am not alone! I've just experienced a similar situation (but replace the phone calls with about a zillion text messages a day…regardless of whether I respond or not). All of my friends were adamant that I should be flattered and excited, when all it really made be feel was that this boy was just a tad overzealous. The outcome was that I let it die a very gradual death since it wasn't immediately obvious that I was less interested than he was (due to the fact that our communication was unbalanced from the get-go). Doesn't it suck that sometimes they don't call enough and sometimes they simply contact too much? Where are those happy-medium guys?

Zoe says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20102:44 pm 

I'm sorry, but I'm totally with Nick here. Give the guy a break! I don't think he acted even remotely like a stalker! And if you wouldn't want to be taken for some scary obsessive person just for calling up a guy twice in 5 days then why are you doing the exact same thing to him? I think it's you that has the double standards.

Marcus says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20104:53 pm 

I agree with Nick and Zoe. He called you three times, probably because you never returned any of his calls. I'm not sure this even counts as him pursuing you (this usually entails flowers, candies and the such), he's just trying to get into contact with you. I don't see any reason why you should be turned off by his behavior.

grace b says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20106:20 pm 

I completely and totally agree!!

Rae says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20107:04 pm 

I agree with Nick to a certain extent. What this guy has done so far doesn't seem to be anything other than trying to get in contact with you. It's possible that the reason he called twice that particular day was he realized that you might not have been able to answer earlier.

HOWEVER, if he had continued/continues to call repeatedly, then we enter into a different story.

Your point, although possibly premature in this particular scenario, definitely rings true. There is definitely a double-standard in what is acceptable behaviour. A boy actively pursuing a girl in this manner is considered to be romantic and sweet- it's a sure sign that he's interested. Yet, should the girl act in this manner, she's immediately labeled clingy and desperate, and guys are advised to head for the hills.

Personally, although I worry myself about coming on too strong (especially since last semester I was involved with a really shy guy, and I'm the feminist who made the first move), I don't view the whole constantly-calling as a turn-on in guys (one guy I met called almost daily, and texted me a few times a day, for about two weeks. Especially since we'd only met once at a club, AND he knew I was busy with school, it was a definite turn-off). However, I think part of the reason people see it as a positive thing is that so many guys simply don't call.

Anna says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20108:20 pm 

There does seem to be a slight double standard, BUT… if a guy was totally into you, he wouldn't care if you called him 3 times. If you like this guy, I'd give him a chance! Call him back!

Miriam says:
Sun, 3rd Jan 20109:13 pm 

If you want to fight the double standard, why don't you give the guy a goddamn break and return his call? First of all, it's the polite thing to do no matter who it is. Second, you sure sounded irked at the idea that guys would be turned off by YOUR calling them more than one measly time, so why don't you break the chain and reserve the word "creepy" for behavior that actually is?

You say there's a "double standard", but actually, I think the difference is that guys, as a whole, generally tend to act like they feel, while girls overanalyze everything and try to act the way they think guys WANT them to act. That's why he called you a whopping three times. I'm sure he'd be ecstatic if you called him just once.

mollination says:
Mon, 4th Jan 20109:20 am 

Yeah, it's complete bullshit. I *hate* having to overanalyze every call or text I want to make or send. If I want to call him, I should be able to call him. But nooo00OO0OOOoo, God forbid I be "psycho girl". But when I recieve a call from him the relief is like finding out I passed my finals while having a double-orgasm. It's complete manure.

I think it's something that won't be changing anytime soon, so in that sense you might as well get over being upset about it.

But, I also think this bs-double standard does not automatically obligate you to be overjoyed with this fellow and call him back.

If you really liked him, you would have felt that passing finals orgasm I mentioned above. Not annoyed. Is it still a complete crap rule? Yes. But you know it's true.

meg says:
Mon, 4th Jan 20105:08 pm 

love this article!

shelly says:
Mon, 4th Jan 20105:50 pm 

Wow! This blog has been enlightening. I'm going through the same scenario, after flirting for a month we have emailed back and forth and he finally asked for the number. We texted new years night and he said he'd text back when he returned to town… I have not heard from him and my buddy told me about the three day rule. I'm thinking… What? Ok, so, one thing is excessive interrupting calls or messages that are obviously not responded to, but after you have been talking to someone you have to have a set of rules to talk? Wow! Wether its from the male or female side, I think we both have to be mature about who we are and how we feel, and if we are respecting the other person's space, time and wishes communication should be able to flow spontaneously. Wow! Now I'm scared to call my friend after reading this, and I have been worried because the roads were bad… I guess unless it turns out on the paper or I get a call three days after he sais he would call I will never know LOL 3 day rule??? Wow…

Chris H. says:
Mon, 4th Jan 20106:31 pm 

The next time this happens, take Nick’s advice. TFB did nothing wrong.

First of all, you said this was a few weeks ago. You blew it.

Second, it’s obvious that you didn’t like this guy from the very fact that you refused to call him back after he called. Even if work really did get crazy and you somehow forgot to call him when you got home, why didn’t you bother calling him when you got to your car after his 2nd call, at the 5 day mark? I mean, really, he gave you a chance to call him back, but you took 2 days. He called again. He realized you may have been at work, and called again to find out why you’ve been avoiding him.

Double standard or no, it seems to me that you really don’t hate this double standard, or you would have looked beyond it and just called him back after that first call – or just called him back after the 3rd call when you parked your car and set up a 2nd date.

Hating the double standard is one thing, but you’re too busy analyzing why he took 3 days to call, and branding him “creepy” after calling a whopping 3 times in 5 days without a return call to even give him a chance. I’m definitely not saying that you should swoon over the fact that he actually called. I’m also not saying that his friends would call you clingy if the shoe was on the other foot. What I’m saying is that you didn’t even bother to call him back. What do you think his friends are telling him now? “Forget about her, man; she didn’t call you back, she’s trying to give you a hint.”

As for the double standard in the first place, men and women are wired differently, and it’s that wiring that has made the rules in the first place. 3 days has been considered acceptable. It’s long enough so as to not look too lonely, clingy or obsessed, and soon enough so as to not seem like an inconsiderate jerk. This only works if you call him back after the phone call. Since you didn’t, he had the option to consider you an inconsiderate jerk, but he chose to look beyond that and decided to give you another chance.

So, the next time this happens, just call him back and see where it goes. Or maybe, just call him first instead. If he thinks you’re too clingy after waiting 1 or 2 days instead of 3 to call, then he’s obviously not your type, and you should move on.

laryhanis says:
Mon, 4th Jan 20108:41 pm 

It seems like when ever a black or hispanic guy dates a caucasian woman it like taboo or a scandal yet when a white guy dates outside his race it gets nothing except a look here or there?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/21159195/ISO7X-Review…

the violator says:
Mon, 4th Jan 20108:46 pm 

people who follow these rules are pretty much destined to be miserable. when you try to analyze/catagorize every little thing as compared to what you read in a book or saw in a movie, no one will ever measure up.

whether its work or school or whatever, sometimes things can get in the way for either sex. would you have been forgiving of him if he hadn't of called you for those 3 days if he too had been busy like you or would you still be annoyed?

maybe he too isn't the worlds greatest phone person like you.

V says:
Tue, 5th Jan 20105:02 am 

Eh, honestly, it's kinda rude you didn't call him back after that 3rd call. I don't think he sounds creepy by his actions at all, he just wants to talk to you. I don't understand why you're so annoyed the guy called you when he said he would three times within a reasonable time span (not 3 times a day, 3 times within FIVE days). It's not me thinking you should be flattered or something cause a guy is into you. It's just not very polite to judge him for 3 calls.

I don't think the double standard's an issue here. You don't seem to like him. And if you don't, that's cool, but don't take offense because you feel his actions, if you did them, would get you branded as "stalker girl." I'd understand more if he called you a zillion times, but he didn't so I don't think that's an issue. The guy's not directly responsible for the world's flaws, he just wants to talk to you!

As a girl, I know how easy it is to over-analyze things and think about double standards,fair and unfair, etc. But in this case, let it go, he's not being creepy or excessive, and he has little control over the world's double standards. Just call him back if you want to talk to him, simple.

Rachel says:
Tue, 5th Jan 20109:54 pm 

Ignoring the specific situation with TFB, I do get frustrated with the fact that whenever my bf contacts me, it's like "hallelujah, he hasn't forgotten about me!", but that I often feel like I should refrain from contacting him so I don't come off as clingy and scare him off… but then I think that's largely a problem that exists in my head, and I can't really blame society for that.

Teehee, he just texted me as I was typing this! You guys, he totally likes me! Now where are the oreos…

Katie says:
Wed, 6th Jan 201011:44 am 

lol to rachel…

i agree with the double standard, but i also think you should call this guy back if he likes you!

if a guy cant handle you calling him, then hes not worth it in my opinion.

criolle johnny says:
Wed, 6th Jan 20104:06 pm 

Three calls in five days and you're flipping out, writing an article about double standards?

If you, and I mean YOU E-V-E-R call ME, I'm changing my number and moving.

You are just looking for a reason to fight … about anything.

Scary.

Will says:
Wed, 6th Jan 20105:15 pm 

The traditional reason for guys to have rules like this is that stereotypically, guys are more reluctant to commit to a relationship, especially early on. The supposed "psycho" girl calls so often because she's trying to define their relationship as serious before it actually is — which guys get warned to stay away from.

Of course, guys who aren't afraid of committing to a serious relationship generally throw rules like that out the window unless it progresses past perhaps slightly clingy to controlling and stalker-y.

The reason women stereotypically do not have that rule is that women are supposed to welcome guys who are displaying signs of being serious about dating and open to commitment. If you're looking to play the field for a while, then perhaps you

*should* look for warning signs like this. Otherwise, I wouldn't get worried unless it gets stalker-y — and this guy was a long way from this point.

Whatever rules you want to follow, you're free to follow. Of course, this means blowing off otherwise decent guys who don't pass your secret tests, but if those are your criteria, so be it.

But you already blew off your first call, then got upset about his calling again. It sounds like you were looking for an excuse not to go out with him. At the very least, a call from a guy who might have interested you didn't rate enough to be something you were often thinking about over those couple of days in between.

I'm not a master of mind games, so I won't pretend to know that this is all about your deep-seated fear of commitment or whatever supposed issue you have — people are more complicated than pithy pieces of generic advice give them credit for. But you may want to do some thinking about what your reasons actually were, and what you want to do in the future.

maxspain says:
Thu, 7th Jan 20105:56 am 

Way to reinforce the double-standard. All you are doing is validating what you think is "right" and "wrong". If i had to guess i would say you don't go on many dates, or scare guys away from dating you. Good luck.

valkyrie9 says:
Fri, 8th Jan 20108:25 am 

correct: I DO think it's because girls are told from an early age to let men do the pursuing. What I meant was that I didn't think that girls were consciously lowering their standards – after all, we're told that we have HIGH standards if we don't go for guys who let us do the planning and pursuing. Anti-feminism is often couched in the language of empowerment.

Patty says:
Fri, 8th Jan 20109:06 am 

This is so true. While I am engaged, the standard doesn't stop there. It keeps going.

I'm OVER JOYED when I'm at work and my finace' calls me twice or more.

BUT gawd forbid I should do the same. If I do the same the same words ring true from his friends mouth. And i'm sure they do in his mind too.

He is claiming it is just the way they feel and think about things, but then WHY would it give them the right to think it is all right to call us more than once?!

valkyrie9 says:
Fri, 8th Jan 20101:23 pm 

I agree with Nick and Zoe that in this particular situation, you’re calling it a bit too soon. I don’t see anything particularly stalker-iffic from the details you give here.

However, I’ve noticed in my own situations that there is indeed a double-standard in terms of “creepiness.” As someone who was a bit too obsessive with boys she liked in high school and got a TON of crap for it, I was miffed when the tables were turned and found out that I not only had no right to criticize similar behavior in guys, but I was supposed to find it *flattering.* One particular situation: I was at a party and talking to this guy for a while, and we’d only known each other for a few hours but he already developed a crush on me. (He was cute, but not too smart and a homophobic jerk, so the attraction was NOT mutual.) By the end of the party he was following me around everywhere and offering to serenade me on the piano. While a few friends shared my discomfort with him, others told me to “give him a chance” and that I should be flattered by any guy who shows that much interest. (Which hits up against another standard – guys are free to reject interested girls if they don’t share their feelings, but girls owe any guy who’s attracted to them “a chance.” We’re not given as much freedom to say no as guys are, or else we’re too damn picky.)

As for your question “Do we set our standards too low, or are guys setting them way too high?” – I think it’s a bit of both. I think guys are encouraged, especially when they’re younger, to see any girl who expresses strong interest as “pathetic” or “creepy,” and could maybe due to open their minds a bit. But I think the problem is more from the girls’ end. I don’t think it’s because girls are told from an early age to let men do the pursuing, and if they have to do any work to get the guy it means “he’s just not that into you.” I think if women were perhaps more critical of modern dating advice and the anti-feminist ideas that are often hidden within its folds, this would be less of an issue – though it’s also on men to stop being so stand-offish toward girls who do have the confidence to do the pursuing (and I know not all men are like this, but a lot of them are).

steve says:
Sat, 9th Jan 20105:46 am 

You have no clue what double standards are! Why are guys expected to pursue, pay for, perform for, wine and dine girls in the first place ? A girl working at McDonalds is as attractive and dateworthy as the same girl working at a prestigious job to most guys. But NOT so for guys! They have to show promise and ambition in life and have higher positions of employment/pay than girls are expected or they can date skanky low class girls. That is a REAL double standard!

As evident in this article, and the replies by ladies, girls are critical and bitchy, judgmental and have numerous expectation flaming hoops that guys have to jump through in order to be blessed with paying for women potentially for the rest of their lives. Why do you think the marriage rate is in a nose dive? Men don't see the benefit of being married to you ladies with all your critical never ending requirments/judgments/nagging/bitchiness. Why do you think foreign dating services do so well nowadays? Men have finally caught a clue about American women. There are more options out there than just the same old high maintenance self entitlement American female. Who BTW choose to divorce men 81% of the time there are divorces in this country. This should say volumes to everyone but it has been like this for a long time. Drop the eye rolls and cynicism girls, or you will only find spineless men you will divorce or guys won't have anything to do with you in the first place.

Ask yourselves ladies, what do guys really get out of being in a relationship with you ? What do guys give up to be in a relationship with you ? You might find that it ain't all that attractive/beneficial to the guy, huh ? Be honest, the blessing of paying for you, living up to all your never ending expectations is NOT attractive!

Sara says:
Sun, 10th Jan 201012:28 am 

I think that you complaining about the double standard forgot to mention the very first thing – why it should be him asking for your number and calling you…why didn't you call him if you were so into him?

And leaving out that it definitely was rude not to call him back, did you consider he might have been even worried about you?

Anyway, it seems to me like you weren't interested at him at all, you just wanted to have something to complain about..

Sarah says:
Sun, 10th Jan 201010:20 am 

WOW STEVE!

Someone has a chip on their shoulder.

Sophia says:
Sun, 10th Jan 20103:17 pm 

I completely agree with the double standard.
For example, I gave myself an objective to stop letting guys do all the pursuing and become fearless and go after a guy that I wanted to hang out with more at work. I get his phone number after many decent conversations we had where I discovered we had a lot in common. I text him a couple of days later (guilty of following the 3-day rule!!). He answered, and although it wasn’t flirtatious, I was fine even just being friends with this guy.

Anyway, I ask him to go for coffee after work one day and he gets all weird saying that he’s actually pursuing another girl.
I find there’s another double standard in how us girls can’t possibly be interested in a guy as a friend and as soon as you suggest an activity outside of the normal one in which you see this guy, he automatically thinks you wanna marry him and have thousands of babies.
I’m a very easy-going girl so to have a guy freak out on me like this when I hadn’t even suggested anything date-like was very eye-opening. Honestly, what’s the big deal in going out for coffee?

valkyrie9 says:
Mon, 11th Jan 20104:34 pm 

Steve, I think girls would do more pursuing if they didn't get so much crap from guys about how they're too "pushy" when they do it. You can't act like this is all girls' fault. I know a lot of girls who would love to take the initiative with guys, but have been shat on when they have. If there were more guys out there who were accepting of women doing the asking and calling and such, this wouldn't be such a double-standard.

Much as guys like you love to complain about it, the fact remains that I know a lot more girls who are willing to do the planning and pursuing, than guys who don't act like it's an affront to their ego if a woman asks them out.

stacy says:
Fri, 15th Jan 201012:04 am 

valkyrie9,

What you’re saying would seem valid if it weren’t so easily disputed by all the negative experiences that men have in being the one expected to pursue women.

So what your saying is that women encounter men that are turned off by their approach, right. Just about every guy has experienced plenty of that. That is parr for the course. That is called “rejection” and women have been giving it to men in a social system that gives them princess on the throne protection of their exclusionary right to be the one doing the rejecting.

If you are saying ” I think girls would do more pursuing if they didn’t get so much “rejection” etc . . . , well this is kinda my point about why the whole structure of dating is a massive “double standard” for men.

I never said it was ALL girls’ faults, it is just time for them to stop complaining about a system that caters to them and their self-entitlement attitudes and OWN UP to their own crap, FOR ONCE!

Stop complaining about how guys do everything for you and when they make a mistake they should be skewered for it. You women get away with mass murder, or is it genocide, in comparison to the jaywalking men commit. It is unbelievable how you women complain about anything with the system you have in place to exploit. Go back to my original questions: what do guys really get out of being in a relationship with you ? What do guys give up to be in a relationship with you ?

If you aren’t interested in answering those questions it is YOU I am talking about, YOU are the American princess who thinks the world/men were created for you. If you want to answer the question, or don’t know how to, then maybe you should give it a try instead of ALWAYS blaming men for all the dissatisfaction you have with your life and how a man isn’t rescueing you from your circumstances like one of those princesses in those sick innumerable Disney cartoon movies like Cinderella or Beauty and the Beast.

To be honest, my wife asked me out and I graciously accepted. That was 11 years ago. Still married and glad I don’t have to be a part of that sick American dating scam. Maybe a guy rejecting a girl for asking him out is a blessing, she knows straight out that he has insecurity/ego issues.

If fear of rejection is a woman’s excuse for expecting men to do the risk taking and holding on to this self-entitled “double standard” then get over it, men have to and why shouldn’t you, don’t women want equality? Or is it just the equality that suits them? WOMAN UP!

Confused says:
Fri, 15th Jan 20104:30 pm 

After reading all this, I’m more confused than ever. Let me lay out my own scenario, and then you all tell me what you think. I suspect I’ll get an equal split on the answers (in a basic sense), and will remain confused about this while game.

I like a girl. We’ve swapped a couple emails. Mostly small talk, but we touched on having a very similar family situation, which revolves around recent loss of loved ones. Now, we swapped a couple emails, but at one point, I didn’t hear back from her for over two weeks. Two weeks! Hear that? Some of us do wait. Now, why was I waiting? Because I’m terrified that I, a man, will seem like a stalker if I send another email. She didn’t respond to my last one, which included continuing questions in the flow of our conversation.

My first impression was that she simply wasn’t interested. Great, no problem. But, hating to not know, and not liking being in limbo, I sent a brief hello, and just simply asked if she was still interested in getting to know one another. She responded to that one. She said she was very sorry for lagging, and that life was getting in the way, but she was still interested. I answered her questions included in that email and told her no worries, and provided fuel for a response email from her (questions, etc).

Now, its over 3 weeks later, and I haven’t heard a thing. What now? Do I initiate again? I’m ok with that, but the fact that I have to worry about that stuff, and do all the work, is a little frustrating. Mostly, I’m afraid of being that pestersome guy who couldn’t take a hint. I’m willing to bet theres alot of guys out there who have that same problem, because we get a lot of BS for being the pursuers too. It happens to both men AND women.

I’m dying to ask this girl more about her family; I’m pretty positive our frustrations with life’s ups and downs is similar, but thats getting personal. Would opening up that side of myself, and being honest and towards the more emotional side of whats going on in my life be too much?

I can tell you it isn’t for me. I’d be thrilled to have a girl open up to me, and initiate with me, and I would reciprocate. Believe it or not, some of us could care less about our friends who tell us “Oh my god, shes clingy, RUN!”

Two birds with one stone here: Maybe someone will have some good advice, and maybe we’ll all gain a little insight as to how people (in a general sense) see these situations.

johnny high says:
Thu, 3rd Jun 201011:03 pm 

OMG the author of this article sounds like such a immature crybaby. Between males and female double standards which abound some of them can be addressed this generation and some can't(teach your kids!). If he or she calls you too much obviously you're not supposed to talk to him while plenty of us do entertain this as part of wanting attention and loving drama(male or female). Unfortunately, when a person acts psycho and you get yourself(or he gets you early in the game)pregnant on a one night stand(or shall I say six month whirlwind romance) you're the villian. Well, guess what baby? You're(she's) pregnant and I(he/she) blowed up your phone. Now your lookin dumb because you're alone over this pride/ego thing when you knew you shouldnt have gave me(or took my) ha hum in the first place. lol mama san. Time to man or woman up for the kids sake playtimes over time to work it out even though she talks to much and he won't eat pussy. lol !!!

Jojo35 says:
Mon, 25th Oct 20105:05 am 

The best way [to] get to know someone is actually TALKING to them!!!!