Johnnie says:
Wed, 5th May 201010:44 am 

I am just trying to understand the facts of this case….which rarely showed up in this article…she was drunk, he was drunk, she went home with him, she took of her jeans…not enough to form any opinion. And verbal consent is a joke…your telling me every time you've had sex, you've said this…in the middle of making out…'I would like to have sex with you now, offer expires in 1 hour."

chelseykelsey says:
Wed, 5th May 201011:37 am 

it's not saying that you need to give specific permission in the middle of making out… but if you say no then that can be rape.

I also think that most people hear rape and automatically think of a girl being pulled into an alley by a strange man.

Most people (outside of the college environment) forget that rape can happen in private. Maybe she just wanted to sleep there instead of walk home. Was she supposed to sleep in jeans just in case he tried anything?

Maybe she thought she was sleeping in a room alone? or at least in separate beds.

Anonymous says:
Wed, 5th May 20103:23 pm 

I thought this ruling was ridiculous. There have been others like it and the jury seems to ignore the idea that her removing her tight jeans is out of fear, which doesn’t equal consent. Yes women (and men) can cry rape, but this ruling seems to be blaming the victim, like because she was wearing tight pants she was asking for it. (http://www.feministing.com/archives/021029.html).

I feel there needs to be verbal consent, (however if the girl/guy is drunk and the other party isn’t the situation could be seen as rape). It’s best to ask if your partner is comfortable with the situation, just to be sure.

The only situation that I have trouble making up my mind about is if both parties are under the influence of alcohol and drunkenly consent, but the next morning one party claims rape. In some states, when you drink you give up your ability to consent, so it would be rape. But if both parties consent under the influence of alcohol is it rape both ways? I guess it depends on the situation but I have difficulty calling this situation rape.

H says:
Wed, 5th May 20104:06 pm 

I agree with Johnnie. We don't have enough facts in this case. Like if there was any ACTUAL EVIDENCE of abuse… vaginal tearing, etc. We don't even know if she actually verbally said "no".

I am not ok with sexual assault in any shape form or fashion. However, having brothers, it does concern me that this is an issue that can SO easily be bluffed without evidence. Even WITH evidence, DNA, at least.

I think rape prosecution is something we need to look into more heavily. Because as devastating is it is for a woman who is raped, especially one who didn't get the vindication of seeing her attacker behind bars… it is just as devastating for a man falsely accused of rape.

Really, in most cases without hard evidence (video, witnesses, physical signs of self defense, vaginal tearing) they just take one person's word over another's. And usually they take the woman's word.

If the sex truly WAS consensual, I'm gald that this skinny jean thing panned out. However if it wasn't, this is a true travesty. But to be frank. We will NEVER know. So why do we automatically assume she is telling the truth and he isn't?

Emily says:
Wed, 5th May 20106:20 pm 

To Johnnie and H:

Not saying anything DOES NOT equal consent. You don't have to verbally say anything. Putting up a struggle or something does justify a "no."

dina says:
Wed, 5th May 20107:13 pm 

This is not the first time a ruling like this took place. It happened in the US a couple years ago when the woman was wearing jeans.

Girl says:
Wed, 5th May 20108:54 pm 

How is it fair that she's drunk so it's not consensual? Guys have drunk sex all the time and they don't claim rape. I feel like it's kind of a double standard.

molly says:
Wed, 5th May 20109:46 pm 

I know that I wake up sometimes, and don't remember having sex with my bf….if it was a stranger I'd be so freaked out, I might think I didn't consent bc I didnt remember.

Absolutely sexual assault is wrong, but I wish girls would stop confusing regret with rape. Wishing you hadn't done it AFTER the fact is not the same thing.

Angeline says:
Thu, 6th May 201012:15 am 

H

Most rape victims don't report because they don't want to relive the trauma of the rape and because they probably can't afford to prosecute. Usually, sexual assault is the hardest to prove so don't tell me that this girl just went through all that effort to pull some ridiculous prank.

Claire says:
Thu, 6th May 20102:47 am 

Just the two cents of an Aussie law student. Don' t jump down my throat, or just skip over it if it's too long winded, I just had to get my opinion accross

Neither this or the linked article have addressed the fact that the jury "asked for clarification" regarding the jeans, they never said "we find the defendant not guilty on the basis the complainant could not have removed the jeans on her own." There couldve been further issues with consent that were not presented by the media.

Furthermore, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonble doubt that the "sexual penetration without consent" occurred (beyond reasonable doubt means >90% guilty verdicts from the jurors here). As a result, if there was any doubt whatsoever in the minds of the jurors regarding consent or even whether or not penetration occurred, they should not present a guilty vote.

Also, if this really is an issue of skinny jeans being the deciding factor, the prosecution will appeal and there is a high likelihood it would be successful. This is just the media latching on to a strange case that would most likely be resolved by a higher court.

Johnnie says:
Thu, 6th May 20107:36 am 

Emily…I think you missed my point… verbal consent isn't always given during consensual sex. So I am asking how this is proven in the court of law…I agree a struggle = no consent. So in court they should present evidence of a struggle, cuts, bruises etc. But the problem in this article is that none of this is mentioned. So we are all just masturbating here. If you want to read about injustice..look up Eric Frimpong.

H says:
Thu, 6th May 20108:36 am 

Once again, lol, I agree with Johnnie.

@Emily- I know that the actual word "no" isn't the only way to express a lack of consent. Like Johnnie, I am saying that we don't have enough information here to be the judge. We don't have all the facts.

@Angeline- I'm not telling you that this girl faked it. What I am saying is this, WE WEREN'T THERE ergo WE DON'T KNOW. I just think it's sad that we automatically believe a women in cases like this. I'm sure reliving a rape in court is horrifying. But I also know that there are girls out there who do this kind of stuff, and it isn't a prank.

Girls have falsified rape reports for different reasons… To keep from having to take responsibility for having sex (especially if they feel pressured by their community to be a virgin), "morning after" regret like Molly said, for revenge against someone they don't like or has hurt them or someone they care for. People are capable messed up things. Both men AND women.

Carrie says:
Thu, 6th May 201010:33 pm 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/esme454/91…

Girl says:
Fri, 7th May 201011:10 am 

@molly- I completely agree; girls do confuse regret with rape. I have personally been in the situation where I had sex when I was drunk, and although I probably wouldn't have done it sober, I still did it. I still had sex, no one forced me to. Who is to say that the guy (who I knew very well, we dated for over a year, but we weren't dating at the time) didn't regret it too? Alcohol lowers inhibitions, and if you can't handle your shit, don't drink.

N says:
Fri, 7th May 201011:11 am 

Its true that we wont ever know what really and truly happened that night, but this type of victim blaming happens too often.

However its true that many women cry wolf because of regret. If you were drunk and consented to sex, you cant call rape, but if your falling all over the place, cant speak or passed out then yes, it is rape. There are grey areas in this subject, but people who lie are potentially ruining someone elses life, not to mention making it harder for people who have been assaulted to prove it.

L says:
Sun, 9th May 20108:47 am 

The idea that it can't be rape if the victim is wearing tight clothing because then she/he would have to help take them off for the alleged rapist thereby giving consent is just stupid. First, it is not impossible for someone else to pull off skinny jeans. Additionally, in a threatening situation the victim is most likely going to comply with the attacker's threats out of fear. If there was lack of evidence then why didn't the jury just say that instead of reasoning that it is impossible to be raped while wearing tight clothing?

Lauren says:
Mon, 10th May 201011:53 pm 

Coming from someone who actually knows the FACTS of this case, I think you should all know that the fact she was wearing 'skinny' jeans had very little to do with the case. In fact it was spoken about for 15 mins in a case that actually spanned for 2 weeks, unfortunately a journalist was present for only those 15mins and decided to turn that into a 'story' leaving out all the facts because of course they aren't interesting. The accused was found not guilty on the grounds that the girls story kept changing and contradicted witnesses statements. So please before you start judging just take into consideration that not everything (possibly nothing) is true that you read, especially when in the media.

M says:
Tue, 11th May 20106:47 pm 

I go to college in Chicago. Some states, including the state of Illinois, say that any sexual intercourse that occurs when one or both of the parties is drunk is rape, even if they "consented" under the influence of alcohol. Just an fyi.

Also, I feel as though I have a much difference perspective on this because I survived an abusive relationship in which my (now ex) boyfriend raped me on a regular basis. There are many ways you can consent and say no. The first time he raped me, he violently subdued me and forced me to say the word "yes." It was for this reason I thought I had given my consent. However, after going through months of counseling, I learned that a forced consent is not a legal one, and it took me months to accept the fact that I had been raped.

I have noticed from my own experiences that "victim blaming" is a widely accepted phenomena in our culture. Not all of my friends were supportive of me. In fact, I often faced doubt and judgement ("Why didn't you try to get out of the relationship sooner?" etc). One of them thought that I was making it up because I regretted having sex with him (as many of you have stated earlier in this thread). Another said, "How can if be rape if it was your boyfriend? You let him in the door. Didn't you enjoy it?" No, actually, I didn't.

In short, I agree with the author of this article. Even though I truly pity men that are falsely acused of rape, if a woman feels that sex wasn't consensual, there's probably a good reason she feels that way.

Amy says:
Fri, 14th May 20101:45 pm 

@ Girl: guys can absolutely have drunk sex and claim rape, though it's more rare. in our culture, it's less acceptable for men to be sexually assaulted. also, it's harder for men to recognize when they've been assaulted or raped because they are supposed to be, and often are, stronger than the female offender. if we were more open about men's sexuality, instead of classifying all men (especially college-aged men) as boors who will do anything for sex, both men and women would probably experience less abuse and heartbreak.

Linda says:
Sat, 15th May 20104:15 am 

Here is my take. If a girl is drunk, or not drunk, and goes to the room of a guy she barely knows, or doesn't know at all, then her story stops there. I don't want to hear any claims of rape. However, this decision is based on who removed the skinny jeans. A woman who is threatened or scared would remove the jeans, or a strong enough man will and can remove the jeans. Period.

Linda says:
Sat, 15th May 20104:24 am 

Did she have a rape test? There is physicial evidence of a forced entry that will show on vaginal exam.

Rebecca says:
Sun, 16th May 201010:47 am 

Just as a sidenote… women's bodies are manufactured to become when when aroused… if things started getting hot, maybe she was a little turned on… in which case there is a lubricant there that might not show forced entry or tearing unless she put up a helluva fight…

Other than that, I agree with the fact that this is a travesty either way… but I also agree that we don't know enough about the case…

As a woman and a prior victim to non consensual sex, I make it a point not to drink a lot around people I don't know… I also make it a point to (if i plan to be drinking) always go with someone else… drunk or not who will look after me and I them… being responsible for someone tends to help you pace yourself.

I think women need to be more responsible when they're inebriated, especially college women… so many sexual assault and rape charges (true or untrue) could be avoided that way.

Michael says:
Fri, 4th Jun 20104:30 pm 

Chelsey Kelsey hit the nail on the head, just because a lady takes off some clothes does not mean she wants sex. Heck, i know i feel freer in my boxer-briefs and tee, and can see how taking women's jeans off could be alot more comfortable and how the girl might assume your not so hard up you'll force her to do it with you.

As a guy i don't tend to think of a comfortably clad lady nor a lady who lodges with me whom i didn't know before as automatically sexual with me.

Ignoring opinions on the complainants intentions, others raised interesting points here and i also agree with Emily, Girl, and Rebecca's comments (it is a travesty either way).

- Michael

Jen says:
Wed, 27th Apr 20113:53 am 

Linda. your a total disgrace and a slut. just because she went to his house doesn't mean she should automatically put out. at any time, if she starts to feel uncomfortable she has the right to say no.
What if in the middle of making out with the guy, more entered the room and all wanted a go? she obviously consented coz she entered the room according to your backwards logic.
I really hope one day you find yourself in her situation. oh wait, you never will coz your a slut who consents to anything.